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Is there such a thing as an OVER-ARRANGED panorama arrangement? Is there a point when the music stops being sweet? How would an arranger know he crossed that point? How does the listener know that threshold has been crossed?

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but if judges on understand SIMPLE and SWEET. Who are u arranging for. Not too complicated  so they cant under and not to simple so they get bored ( not saying simple is boring). But Who are u arranging for


This is just a general statement so as not to offend any one person.  Panorama arrangements canot be just SWEET & SIMPLE.  Bands that subscribe to the sweet and simple school of thought are doing themselves a dis-service.  If you understand how panoramas are judege you will see why.  When judging a Panorama the judges first and foremost are judging by the criteria.  If a winner can be determined at that level, it is a done deal.  However, in tight competitions where two or more bands are neck and neck, the judges then take it up a notch.  They begin to judge in terms of the music presented.  They look at what is referred to as musical intricacies and technicalities.

This I can relate to...thanks for the insight on this . I now have  greater respect for what I previously considered "Noise".Thanks to All for my lesson learnt on this topic.....:)......Pan Virgin



And how the crowd react to the tune.


Could you over cook a rice till it does not taste like rice any more So many ingredients i dont know what i am eating


I'll make my first and last comment about this topic: Jit Samaroo's works are particularly dense and heavily contrapuntal; his panorama music is rarely if ever "still" and always intellectual. With that said, his works set records in victories in the competition. Conversely, Clive Bradley (Ibae) was particularly lyrical and straightforward in his settings of melodies and grooves; he is well considered to be one of the best arrangers that ever blessed the instrument. I think it's always important to consider the competitive music as a confluence of several elements: musical content, performance ability, balance of sound, tempo of interpretation, etc... Sometimes the "over-arranging" that is perceived is actually an unbalanced performance that lacks clarity. Consider the difference between the humming of bees in a hive as opposed to the humming of a refrigerator compressor; they are sonically and acoustically identical except that one is naturally more ordered than another.
I can see where ur coming from KR,Lovin ur point of view......

There is such a thing as an over arranged panorama piece , where the music stops being sweet and becomes confused  and lost..most recent was last years Brooklyn's panorama finals '' Andrea White's piece for the band adlib and his  arrangement for the trinidad band Sforzata both last year.got so lost..i choosed him because he is well educated in the field of music and is growing  but got lost in '' my ear '' as i was tring to follow  verse melody and chorus,,, not everyone could be a Bradley, Jit or Boogsie, but what an arranger can be is a good listener and know how to interpret the tune he is working with and how to play in and around the actual melody of that song.. those who don't arrange don't know how hard it becomes to put together  ''10 mins of music for a panorama competition and after awhile you just don't know what direction to go in.. putting ah little bit of this and that  ,,like cooking food and you over season and it just taste bad.......

Hmm  well...First...his name is Andre White.. If you know the song "Wild and Free" (original song that is) you would hear the phrase "Wild and Free" (original song that is) all over that song. "Wine if yuh winein, wild and free" is all over the arrangement listen to the intro,variation,jam,minor,ending jam its there. There are bands in the top 3 in Trinidad panorama which I am always lost but I go buy the CD and listen over and over and over, sometimes it helps. If you say you dont understand his style say so I understand that cause his style is very new. If you would like I can assist in helping you to understand what i am saying. Try listening to Andre White's arrangement in London which he won this year. (keep in mind "ah like how trini does wok wok wok wok wok") its all over the song.

i think the perfect example of "beng lost in an arrangement" is the winning arrangement in the medium category of that same year

Maybe over-arranged is too vague a term...what if we were to use a more specific term like: DENSE


Is this section so "dense" that it disconnects the listener? Dense can mean:

-chord structure is too thick sometimes causing a muddy sound

-more than 3 independent melodies occurring at the same time causing alarming harmonic situations

-too much movement in the bass pans bogging down music


Granted each one of the above can be appropriate in the right situation as well. Does anybody know of arrangements when each of these situations worked? and when it did not?

Though "DENSE"maybe a more specific term in relation to the topic and may work for the experienced pan enthusiast. I find it to  be complicated for someone like me who is a virgin pan listener to relate to this terminology when trying to understand why some arrangers make music while others make what to me sounds like noise...I may quicker relate to simple  musical terminology while trying to get a point across or to understand another's point of view.This forum and the different points of view has allowed me to not just listen with my ears, but with "heart" to the efforts and new appreciation for what it takes to be a" Genius " pan arranger as the ones that have passed on their gifts to this magnificent culture!


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