Ted: Although you are FAR LEFT and I am MIDDLE RIGHT (Imagine a BLACK MAN from TRINIDAD is MIDDLE RIGHT), we could have some NICE LONG discussions about CALYPSO. As many people on this forum can tell you, Claude is NOT a PAN MUSIC lover -- I am a calypso lover above all things!!! But I do feel PITY for the lack of ADMINISTRATIVE TALENT in the PAN WORLD -- that is the magnet that draws me to the PAN. I will stop there for now and get back ON TOPIC.
This is the wrong forum to discuss the INNARDS OF CALYPSO, but when a CALYPSONIAN (even today, so imagine the FORTIES) walks into the studio -- he barely comes in with a piece of paper on which the lyrics are written.
Hence the LESTON PAULS and the ART DECOUTEAUS and the GERORGE VICTORYS and the ED WATSONS . You should dig up the DRAMA on "WHO LET THE DOGS OUT" and you could begin to get some insight into how the music is developed.
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY is an issue that has intrigued me for decades. Where does it begin and where does it end? So from my perspective, LIONEL BELASCO fits right smack dab in the middle of this LAW SUIT!!!
Ted Cloak > Claude GonzalesJuly 10, 2017 at 8:14pm
NOPE!!! Go back and READ THE FORUM!!! The very first time you went POLITICAL on me, I let it slide!!! But I knew who what your THINKING was at that very moment. As much as I POST -- I am very heavy on editing. But you hit an EARLY political nerve with me on your IMMIGRATION response and that told me ALL I needed to know.
But this this about CALYPSO and PAN so let us keep it there.
Here is the central issue: When it comes to CALYPSO, I can stand my ground with ANYBODY. Because 90% of the people who know MORE ABOUT CALYPSO than me DONE DEAD ALREADY!!!
Let us keep the discussion going because we are both here to LEND OUR LIFETIME SKILLS to PAN!!!
Claude
Ted Cloak > Claude GonzalesJuly 11, 2017 at 12:27am
Just to keep context for later readers, I'm quoting the remarks that apparently made Claude label me as FAR LEFT:
Senor Claude Gonzales: Be careful with satire; too many people just don't get it! Just in case, though: Allyuh should know that what is now the state of NEW MEXICO, straddling the Rio Grande between Arizona and Texas, was colonized by Spanish people from what is now (old) Mexico in the early 1500s. Of course the Pueblo peoples got sick of being colonized and drove them back south in 1680. Only to have them reconquer a few years later. So now New Mexico, a state since 1910, is majority-minority. We does get along fine, like the Sparrow song has it. But pan is hardly known here. Very sad.
Best regards,
Ted
P.S. Babies made in the USA are automatically citizens.
The CALYPSONIANS bring very little to the studio when they come in -- except for a few exceptions. The arrangers make them what they are. So I tend to see it from both sides. I can tell you a lot of stories about that because of personal experiences with the music. But I usually keep those conversations OFF the FORUM.
Right now, with time running out in my life, I want to see PAN MUSIC leave the narrow borders of Trinidad. The problem is that they do not want ANY INPUT from EXPATS or WHITE FOREIGNERS.
But think about this: Why is WHENSTEELTALKS the GLOBAL VOICE of PAN? When we have all these geniuses down in TRINIDAD yet they cannot even set up a PAN FORUM to attract a GLOBAL AUDIENCE.
And why is Jonathan Scales and Andy Narell and Victor Provost and Tracy Thornton and Tom Miller ruling the GLOBE OF PAN when we have all these so-called PAN GENIUSES in Trinidad?
And why can't these MUSICAL GENIUSES produce ONE PIECE of decent PAN MUSIC that could get AIRPLAY and SALES globally? I have been asking these questions for years now on this forum and not ONE PERSON could answer. Not one person could put up ONE DECENT PIECE of PAN MUSIC that could cross borders.
All the ideas suggested on this forum surrounding this upcoming show, do you think that even ONE IDEA is going to be considered? NOT A CHANCE.
Lynette Laveau is a diplomatic woman. And she would NOT come on this forum and be as acerbic as I am -- but although I have never met or spoken to her, I know that she knows THE TRUTH.
The head of UWI (a super-highly educated man) is planning to go BEG THE GOVERNMENT for more money to implement the STEEL PAN into economic diversification. The same man who wasted $35 MILLION on a G-PAN PROJECT. So go figure.
The first day anyone of these MUSICAL GENIUSES down in Trinidad puts up a decent piece of PAN MUSIC that could get some airplay and sales globally -- I will be the first to applaud.
But it is more COMPLEX than they could hang their hats on!!!
Now yuh make me make all kinda enemies on the forum!!!
But somebody got to TELL IT LIKE IT IS!!!
I will make a bet with you!!! Give the ISF 10 million TT dollars and give me 100,000 TT dollars and I could produce a better PAN CD than them and return the investment in 12 months with a PROFIT -- while their money just DISAPPEARS.
Do you know how many HUNDREDS of MILLIONS have been put into PAN since the SIXITES? Yet all the STEELBANDS are broke today and the executive body is 34 million dollars in debt. Give them another 100 million and they will be broke in another year. So it all seems hopeless to me!!!
Lynette and Ted and Glenroy and Bugs and Cecil and odw and Patrick and Patrick Ramdoo and Dr. deLight and merrytonestothebone and Oswald Alexander and WHEN STEEL TALKS and all the other regular posters on the forum. If you LOVE CALYPSO, you are going to love this story.
I wonder if PAN could ever reach these HEIGHTS -- one way or another!!!
Ted Cloak > Claude GonzalesJuly 10, 2017 at 7:31pm
"Calypso on Trial" (CoT) brought me up short, for a strange reason. I read Louis Nizer's book My Life in Court long ago, when it first came out, I think, in 1961. That would be a year or two before I went to Trinidad for about 19 months. CoT explains that the lawsuit against Morey Amsterdam was divided in two, one for the lyrics of Rum and Coca Cola and the other for the score. It mentions that Nizer prosecuted the score half, then goes on to discuss the lyrics half at length, and finally briefly announces that Amsterdam lost the score half as well, without even mentioning Nizer again. (Nizer gives a fascinating account of his case.) But I was perplexed by the names of the plaintiffs, Lionel Belasco and Maurice Baron, in both Nizer and CoT. This is what brought me up short: I "remembered" that the plaintiff was Roaring Lion, and he's not even mentioned in Nizer's book! Nor is Lord Invader, who CoT explains made the song a hit in Trinidad. Moral: Memory a funny t'ing, man.
Anyhow, thanks for finding and sharing that excellent piece, Claude. I loved the 1940's photos especially.
Replies
Ted: Although you are FAR LEFT and I am MIDDLE RIGHT (Imagine a BLACK MAN from TRINIDAD is MIDDLE RIGHT), we could have some NICE LONG discussions about CALYPSO. As many people on this forum can tell you, Claude is NOT a PAN MUSIC lover -- I am a calypso lover above all things!!! But I do feel PITY for the lack of ADMINISTRATIVE TALENT in the PAN WORLD -- that is the magnet that draws me to the PAN. I will stop there for now and get back ON TOPIC.
This is the wrong forum to discuss the INNARDS OF CALYPSO, but when a CALYPSONIAN (even today, so imagine the FORTIES) walks into the studio -- he barely comes in with a piece of paper on which the lyrics are written.
Hence the LESTON PAULS and the ART DECOUTEAUS and the GERORGE VICTORYS and the ED WATSONS . You should dig up the DRAMA on "WHO LET THE DOGS OUT" and you could begin to get some insight into how the music is developed.
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY is an issue that has intrigued me for decades. Where does it begin and where does it end? So from my perspective, LIONEL BELASCO fits right smack dab in the middle of this LAW SUIT!!!
You been reading my FBI file, huh?
NOPE!!! Go back and READ THE FORUM!!! The very first time you went POLITICAL on me, I let it slide!!! But I knew who what your THINKING was at that very moment. As much as I POST -- I am very heavy on editing. But you hit an EARLY political nerve with me on your IMMIGRATION response and that told me ALL I needed to know.
But this this about CALYPSO and PAN so let us keep it there.
Here is the central issue: When it comes to CALYPSO, I can stand my ground with ANYBODY. Because 90% of the people who know MORE ABOUT CALYPSO than me DONE DEAD ALREADY!!!
Let us keep the discussion going because we are both here to LEND OUR LIFETIME SKILLS to PAN!!!
Claude
Just to keep context for later readers, I'm quoting the remarks that apparently made Claude label me as FAR LEFT:
Of course, let's keep the discussion going.
Ted Cloak, Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
The problem was that I was not being satirical!!! I happen to consider the ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION of MEXICANS into CALIFORNIA a SOCIAL DISEASE.
You can't imagine the CULTURAL DESTRUCTION!!! I could write a book about that along with a second book about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION into TRINIDAD.
It must be the curse of my life to have LIVED in TWO GROUND ZEROES of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION -- one in Trinidad and one in Northern California.
Let's get back to the PAN TING, Pleeaaasse!!!
OK.
The CALYPSONIANS bring very little to the studio when they come in -- except for a few exceptions. The arrangers make them what they are. So I tend to see it from both sides. I can tell you a lot of stories about that because of personal experiences with the music. But I usually keep those conversations OFF the FORUM.
Right now, with time running out in my life, I want to see PAN MUSIC leave the narrow borders of Trinidad. The problem is that they do not want ANY INPUT from EXPATS or WHITE FOREIGNERS.
But think about this: Why is WHENSTEELTALKS the GLOBAL VOICE of PAN? When we have all these geniuses down in TRINIDAD yet they cannot even set up a PAN FORUM to attract a GLOBAL AUDIENCE.
And why is Jonathan Scales and Andy Narell and Victor Provost and Tracy Thornton and Tom Miller ruling the GLOBE OF PAN when we have all these so-called PAN GENIUSES in Trinidad?
And why can't these MUSICAL GENIUSES produce ONE PIECE of decent PAN MUSIC that could get AIRPLAY and SALES globally? I have been asking these questions for years now on this forum and not ONE PERSON could answer. Not one person could put up ONE DECENT PIECE of PAN MUSIC that could cross borders.
All the ideas suggested on this forum surrounding this upcoming show, do you think that even ONE IDEA is going to be considered? NOT A CHANCE.
Lynette Laveau is a diplomatic woman. And she would NOT come on this forum and be as acerbic as I am -- but although I have never met or spoken to her, I know that she knows THE TRUTH.
The head of UWI (a super-highly educated man) is planning to go BEG THE GOVERNMENT for more money to implement the STEEL PAN into economic diversification. The same man who wasted $35 MILLION on a G-PAN PROJECT. So go figure.
The first day anyone of these MUSICAL GENIUSES down in Trinidad puts up a decent piece of PAN MUSIC that could get some airplay and sales globally -- I will be the first to applaud.
But it is more COMPLEX than they could hang their hats on!!!
Now yuh make me make all kinda enemies on the forum!!!
But somebody got to TELL IT LIKE IT IS!!!
I will make a bet with you!!! Give the ISF 10 million TT dollars and give me 100,000 TT dollars and I could produce a better PAN CD than them and return the investment in 12 months with a PROFIT -- while their money just DISAPPEARS.
Do you know how many HUNDREDS of MILLIONS have been put into PAN since the SIXITES? Yet all the STEELBANDS are broke today and the executive body is 34 million dollars in debt. Give them another 100 million and they will be broke in another year. So it all seems hopeless to me!!!
Claude
Lynette and Ted and Glenroy and Bugs and Cecil and odw and Patrick and Patrick Ramdoo and Dr. deLight and merrytonestothebone and Oswald Alexander and WHEN STEEL TALKS and all the other regular posters on the forum. If you LOVE CALYPSO, you are going to love this story.
I wonder if PAN could ever reach these HEIGHTS -- one way or another!!!
http://www.rumandcocacolareader.com/RumAndCocaCola/Calypso_on_Trial...
"Calypso on Trial" (CoT) brought me up short, for a strange reason. I read Louis Nizer's book My Life in Court long ago, when it first came out, I think, in 1961. That would be a year or two before I went to Trinidad for about 19 months. CoT explains that the lawsuit against Morey Amsterdam was divided in two, one for the lyrics of Rum and Coca Cola and the other for the score. It mentions that Nizer prosecuted the score half, then goes on to discuss the lyrics half at length, and finally briefly announces that Amsterdam lost the score half as well, without even mentioning Nizer again. (Nizer gives a fascinating account of his case.) But I was perplexed by the names of the plaintiffs, Lionel Belasco and Maurice Baron, in both Nizer and CoT. This is what brought me up short: I "remembered" that the plaintiff was Roaring Lion, and he's not even mentioned in Nizer's book! Nor is Lord Invader, who CoT explains made the song a hit in Trinidad. Moral: Memory a funny t'ing, man.
Anyhow, thanks for finding and sharing that excellent piece, Claude. I loved the 1940's photos especially.
Best
Ted
Thanks Claude Gonzales. I asked about a pay per view also.
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