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Do we have anybody on this Site that can relate to the Steelband Clash with Invaders and Tokyo (I think it was 1950) EG: like where you were at the time, what you saw? or what you hear from your Parents or your friends, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeyvpBznVnA

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Glenroy My Bro.. You Have Mirrored what I have been Saying on this Forum for  a Longtime. Some People Just wont and  Cant Respect the Truth and Move On. We Can Hee and Haw as Much as We Like. Pan is not going to Reclaim the Streets as We Knew it. Times Have Changed But Some of Us Continue to Want to Live in the Past. Case in Point. We were Once Young People and enjoyed Our Young Days. We are now all Grown Adults. We can all live with those Pleasant Memories, but We cant Turn Back the Hands of Time. Its A new Era. A New Day.

To all that say it cannot be done, watch ALL STARS do it.

No Val , where you and I disagree is you say it can't be done.

I believe that it could be and should be done.

And I definitely hope it is done.

I am simply saying that I do not believe it will happen because those in a position to make it happen do not have the will or desire to do so !

Glen, those in a position to make it happen keep pushing panorama because that's their cash cow, success on the road benefit the steelband and they doh get a cut.

Glenroy, I think that Valentine is right -- and wrong.

He is  right in saying that  " . Pan is not going to Reclaim the Streets as We Knew it." But he is wrong in thinking that this is what people want. I am sure nobody seriously wants things to go back EXACTLY as they were 30- 40-odd years ago.

What they want is for Pan to reclaim a central role in carnival, taking into consideration the fact that times have changed and there is a difference in technology, in pan itself and in the general attitudes to carnival. Think, whiz kids on tenor and 'de woman on de bass' are no longer something to get excited about, they are commonplace;  so a complete panside rolling on the streets may never return, but that is not the case we are longing for.

And he misses the vitally important point that carnival without pan is a great caribbean party, nearly as sweet as those carnivals in other parts of the world -- and sweeter than some, but Carnival with pan makes it a unique, one-of-a-kind, incomparable spectacle, second to nowhere else in the world!

However, I am an optimist and I see a germ of hope in that Tuesday night 'pan on de road event' that is growing in popularity. I am convinced that the more young people experience this type of thing, the more they will be won over. All we need to hope for is that the players and organizers find creative ways of bringing the pans closer to the people, (lowboys maybe)

And finally, I cannot understand why we continue to speak as if the fact that "those in a position to make it happen do not have the will or desire to do so" is unchangeable. In a democratic society?

Noel , I've tried to explain to Val that we've had over 50 years to advance the mobile steelband from where  was in the sixties to where it should be today , but he keeps deliberately missing the point.

When we talk of a greater role for the steelband in the carnival parade , he insists that we wish to return to the past.

Even Bertie Marshall back in the sixties had a vision for the future with his amplified pans on the road , but he was one of the few.

My point is that because so much time has passed and so little has been done , it will take the combined efforts of the government , Pan Trinbago , and the National Carnival Committee to come up with a visionary plan to improve the carnival , and the steelband's role in the carnival.

These entities will be the major players in any future for the steelband participation in Carnival

And as I've said , this will take leadership , will , desire and vision.

Which means we all have to appreciate the place of the steelband in the culture , and this applies to more than just pan people

My Brothers Glen and Noel. We all Love Pan or We would not be having this Discussion.   Pan in Carnival has always been the Norm. There will be a time when Pan on the Road will be a thing of the Past. The Writing is on the wall but some seems to not see it or even notice it. I am sure that You Guys would remember when Steel and Brass Ruled Our Streets and Parties at Carnival. Brass has died and Steel bands are hanging on for dear life. Its not the Fault of Panorama or even the Steel bands, its Technology.  The Large Boom Boxes has Taken over the Streets. The Steelbands cant compete on the Roads with those Big Trucks. Its a Fact that I have it seen many times. Steel bands are frustrated by that unfair Competition. Without Panorama Steel bands Would be Dead. You all remember What happened to Brassorama. Dead. You don't see One Brass Band on the Road at Carnival. Its Good to Stand up for the Pan but its also Smart to Face Reality. Steel bands on the Roads at Carnival are Terminal. Dying Slowly. Why Cant You all See that.

Val, brass instruments were not invented in T&T, the steelpan was, this is why it should always be a part of our carnival. The problems the steelband faces are fixable, as Glenroy said certain people have to get involve but most of all there must be a desire to make it a success.

If I may express my humble opinion I think Noel said the key word "unique" No matter what we say and think about pan it remains unique to all other forms of entertainment.Most of other entertainment artforms are comparable but pan remains still the foremost intriguing .Listen up fellow trinis we are the sole propietor of this phenomenon  so how about embracing it as such and together move toward advancing it to a  beneficial position...This conversation is a good way to start,with inputs from interesting parties from all over the world I'm sure it won't be long!!

Cecil My Bro. Its Nice to Defend Our Culture and Our Steel band Invention but We Must understand that before there were Steel bands there were Brass on the Roads Providing Music for Carnival Revellers. Brass Instruments played an Integral Part into the Development of Carnival. We did not Invent Carnival. We added another Musical Voice to the Festival. What I am Saying is because of Technology and Those Big Boom Boxes on the Big Trucks and the Loud Noises that emanates from them Steel bands on the Roads will one day becomes a Thing of the Past Just as the Brass bands did. its only a matter of Time. its getting Worse. Times has changed. I am not saying that its a good thing. its Very Bad but Real.

Val, I am wondering, If the Trinidad & Tobago Govt' decides to make it a law,  that all day on Carnival Monday there will be no Big Boom Boxes on the Big Trucks, only Music that we will have on that Day is Steelband Music, and if anyone is not in Compliance, the Police  will Shut them down. So on Carnival Monday will be Steelband day. (that would be Great, but the Govt' don't have the Balls to do it, everybody looking to put $$ in their Pocket)

I think you may have it wrong. To say "We Must understand that before there were Steel bands there were Brass on the Roads Providing Music for Carnival Revellers" may be a misreading of the history. My information, (mainly from my reading and from my parents and older relatives) is that brass bands at Carnival were used mainly to provide music for the 'uptown' white and mulatto (and upper-middle class blacks) who .played their mas on the backs of trucks.

The black ex-slaves in those days played their mas to the music of the tamboo-bamboo (after drums were banned) before the steelbands came into being. 

When the upperclass revellers finally came off their trucks and started to parade on foot, they hired persons to hold long ropes which circled the bands and these ropes prevented the ordinary man in the street from mixing with their costumed groups (they also wore face masks of mesh to prevent them being recognized). These revellers continued to play their mas accompanied by brass bands. 

The 'Jamete' carnival, which was that played by the exslaves and some -- mainly french creole-- mulattoes (l'homme camisol)  is the main 'stream' that evolved into our modern carnival -- although the other stream did have some influence. This main stream contained the people who invented, developed and honed the steelband into the instrument that provided music for their carnival celebrations.

Although one does not wish to underplay the contribution of the brass bands, it is the fact of the existence of this 'carnival instrument' -- the steelband-- that led T&T carnival to be called 'one of the wonders of the world'. 

And here lies my point. In this era of cheap airflights, of greater international accessibility, Carnival can be a much greater money earner than it is at the moment. But to do so, it must regain its uniqueness, its one of a kind nature, and this is what the steelbands provide. So the government, Pan trinbago, the bandleaders and the public at large can buy into this, whatever new legislations need to be put in place (if this is necessary) will not take that much political will,

After all is more money we talking bout!

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