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IT IS TIME PANTRINBAGO INCLUDE FOREIGN MUSICIANS IN THE PANORAMA FINALS. AS THEY HAVE DONE IN THE MUSIC FESTIVALS. THIS WILL ELIMINATE JUDGES WHO HAVE THEIR OWN HOME TOWN BANDS AND ARRANGERS

They should stop throwing out the high and low scores and add everything together.

They have audio deficiencies in  their musical analysis of what is good music.  desperadoes music of Hammer Time is a musical  GEM and they by passed this for Jam.

Musician

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 ALLSTARS PLACING SECOND WAS MADNESS//// THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN 6th.... THERE MELODY WAS WEAK AND THEY PLAYED WITHOUT FEELINGS.... DESPERS SHOULD HAVE BEEN SECOND 

I love Despers but what part of All Stars you did not listen to or do you really understand when steel talks!

I think the Judging Criteria is Arrangement = 40

                                General Performance = 40

                                Tonality                       = 10

                                Rythmn                        =10   maybe a band might make 40 points in Arrangement and their General performance may not been that good, vise versa (i dont know) Maybe the Judges criteria should change, i dont know

Despers are no longer on the hill. They are now a Belmont band. Yet, they are not of the Belmont people. Hence they have no vibes. Even with David Rudder's chant " lavanty here we come " the Radoes lacked that edge, that umph, that - for want of a better term - badjohn attiude making the statement that we doh fraid nobody an we go show all yuh. This attitude was displayed in their leadership, Rudolph Charles, in their tuning Charles and Marshall and in their musical arrangement Bradley and Greenidge. By deserting their roots Despers have found themselves in no mans land. A land between corporate Trinidad and the real people who have been ignored by society. A society whose politicians have exploited the residents of the hill for their votes and then left them to suffer. Yes, these residents understood why Melda resorted to obeah and  Rebecca smoked the thing after the jamming she experienced that caused fire to come down. When the band moved they gained a whole new clientel but lost their soul. The fire is no longer coming down and its not even in their belly.

I will partially agree with you on the movement, but if you go to the yard it is mostly the same followers. And desperadoes always have outside followers besides the hill.

Cool

Well anybody who wants FOREIGN JUDGES in PANORAMA -- doh know nothing about calypso. You could not even get a FOREIGN JUDGE from BARBADOS who could understand the TRINIDAD CALYPSO IDIOM; so don't bother to go any further up past the equator to look for a judge.

On the other hand, the PANORAMA CALYPSO is in major transition with unskilled composers (using only their close relationship to a steelband to get their tunes selected) and played out composers who are struggling to make meaningful music to fit the demands and challenge of the modern PANORAMA STEELBAND. I feel that Boogsie was one step away from further muddying the water for the panorama judges since he had a musical piece that DID NOT NEED LYRICS. In the late eighties he released a bunch of instrumental pieces which have become steelband standards all over North America with NO LYRICS.

I say that you have to be born in Trinidad to be an efficient PANORAMA JUDGE (unless you came on a GRENADA-SHIP very early in life like Sparrow, Blue Boy, Stalin, Iwer and a list other names too long to mention). And even if you were born in Trinidad you cannot spend 25 years in foreign (music degrees or not) and come back and think that you know it all  and can be an effective judge in PANORAMA -- YOU CANNOT ... too much water passed under that bridge that you did not see flow.

It is clear that the PAN FANDOM is at a loss in trying to understand the marking of the judges. It would be an enlightening miracle if WST can lobby to get one or two of the judges to come on an give an interview with score sheets in hand further breaking down the categories and explaining the allocation (or subtraction) of points.

 

 

Claude I attended a few Panorama judging postmortems that Pantrinbago held,I don't know if they do that anymore.

I would never forget the time this young female judge gave my band a very low score (60s) and I asked her why she thought that was a just score. She told me that the arrangement had no runs and the music was too simplistic,a view that Felix Roach (who was also on the panel) completely disagree with,as he went on to explain the musicianship that would be required to arrange a piece of music without any runs.Clive Bradley was our arranger and told us of his intention before he started to arrange the music.

The meeting got very heated and I distinctly remember this one bandleader (whose band has won every panorama,in his mind) was very abusive to a couple judges,including this said judge.Things got so bad that I myself had to plead with some colleagues to stop abusing the judges. As competitors we did not object to any judge,so we were as much to blame as any one else. 

I support playing Calypso of yesteryear,because I believe there are numerous great melodies that have not been played and most of what passes as "tunes made for pan" are melodically very weak carnival pieces.

I was having a discussion with a old panman friend who suggested that tunes that have been played over a certain amount of times in Panorama be given an official 5/10 years "ban" from the competition.....for instance if Toco Band has been played 20 times over the years up to 2013,it cannot be played until 2018/2023.

Don't try to understand Panorama judges,they have their own biases as you and I,as far as I am aware none of them have ever won a Panorama,have/had a hit record or is/has been very popular as a musician and/or song writer.

Save yuhself de grief..!

 

That statement is high class stupidity, stating that you have to be a born Trinidadian to be a Panorama Judge. Panorama is not just about verse and chorus for jamming and wining it is about the rudiments of music. And you must have Qualified Musicians judging not friends and office Managers or sweet talkers.

Since you are speaking about Mr. Sharpe whenever he does not win he complains about the judges but when he wins he keeps quiet. However, for your information the music festivals that takes place in Trinidad where you have a Panorama song; a Classic and; and a song that every one must play they use foreign judges along with the local. If you are a musician that reads music you will realize that music is an international art written according to the key and that  top class musicians can read it. Why do you think the rules say you must have a recording? because the judges can listen to it or even write out the music if it is not. From that melody and chord structure they can then understand your arrangements around that song. At present you have steel orchestras all over the world reading music and playing calypsoes arranged by some of  the panorama arrangers.

You must also listen/read before you speak or write. I said, used foreign judges with the local judges for better judging and fairness.

Musician

You're on it Claude!

Peter Bruno:

Back to you on the hill movement. A year is 12 months or 365/366 days and Desperadoes only spends about a month to two months on the Cadiz Road. The main reason is because of the fear of their outside fans coming up the hill and for easy access to the savannah and cost constraints. The next ten months they are in their Pan Yard practicing as usual.  You should also take note they are the only large band that is located above Port of Spain and in years gone by before and after every panorama they had to hire trucks and members to move the pans until some Desperadoes members had a truck company that moved them. This was mostly with Rudolph and the older and dedicated Desperadoes member. In this generation the youth are now stars and they hardly want to move pans. But, they are still on the hill ten months of the year.

Musician

Oswald Alexander, I like and totally agree with your very last sentence, Kitch ah missing you bad boy.......

I think it takes a little more than ones ability to read music to be a panorama judge. Having said that I won't have a problem if one year they choose a panel of judges from all over the world and see what happens.

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