I'm no expert but it seems to me that back then there was a distinct difference between a double tenor and a double second.
I don't know the technological difference in the notes etc, but I know they were completely different pans.They sounded differently and were used differently.
I'm assuming it changed when arrangers and players demanded of the tuners that the double second be tuned as a lead pan, and the tuners accommodated them.
Nowadays to the casual observer or listener it is difficult to tell the difference.
You see, it's not really the sweetness, it's the tone, Wallace tone used to be a BARKING tone, I will tell you all something, when I took my pan to Birch, he told me that the tone that Wallace gave on my Double Tenor, he cannot give it to me. It's a special technic, after Birch tune my Double Tenor it end up just being sweet instead of that Barking tone. When a Properly tuned Double Tenor with that Barking tone, it gives the band a better sound, you can hear a different instrument in the band. Lots of good tuners will tune a Double Tenor and it sounds like a sweet Double second, you dont hear that different tone in the band. When I used to play in West Side Symphony(bwia sunjets) I used to play a 3 pan that was called "Echophone", that pan did not sound like a Second pan, it had a complete different tone, "Rock" was the only one that made that (bless his soul)
Bede, just for your information, I remember Burch tuned some sweet double tenors for Scarlet Symphony in 65,66.
I don't remember if Southern Marines had any before the break, but if they did Burch would also have been involved, he was loyal to the Marabella bands..
Then in '67 when I joined Silvertones (after the music festival in which the placed second in the un-sponsored category) they also had some sweet double tenors that were tuned either by Alan Gervais or Errol Moore who worked with Alan at the time.
Anyone remembering Silvertones from back then would remember how sweet the pans were
This is back in the sixties and we talking about some of the best tuners ever.
Incidentally, Alan also tuned for Solo Harmonites in that era.
So we have a lot of great tuners who tuned double tenors
. IMHO, its almost impossible to tell who was the best without hearing all of them.
(Sometimes I feel like Chalkdust: I've been in town too long)
Steve, I always used to say that Wallace Austin was the best Double Tenor tuner, ask pan people from City Symphony and they will tell you, ask Mikey Mills, Cordell (Spongy) Barbour (the sweetest Double Tenor player ever). Wallace had left NY and went back home and he was the tuner for Exodus, but all that time he really was not too well, and I guess age and illness caught up with him, he might be still at Exodus sitting back, but I hope he is ok. I havent been home in 12 yrs, hoping when I go home he is alright
Truthfully, I dont know if chroming enhance the sound but am sure it prevents rust and your pan should last longer, and again, if you take care of it and not have it out of a case whiled being stored or you have your pan set up where somebody allways walking into it, your wife or who ever walking out of the kitchen with a pot of Calallo and spilling over it, etc
Ian Franklin commented on Professor Liam Teague's chello piece vid that they were not Chromed but painted Pans which had a lovely sound and he expressed the same feelings which you Bede stated here .I am asking do chroming enhance the sound or prevents corrosion which in turn gives you a longer lasting Instrument . ? GRJ and Ian what's your take on this ? Thanks .
Bede you mention Wallace , well I remember the first time I saw him he brought a Double Tenor he had made for us in Texaco West Stars and it was played by our Arranger Steve Regis . Steve knew him and his ability so I suppose he ordered it . To me it was the " SWEETESS " sounding Pan and Steve being a Pan Maestro had the ability to make it "Talk" as we say . Haven't heard of Wallace for quite a while . Is he still Tuning ?
Comments
Very nice! To know your pan so well to smoothly arpeggiate all those chords impresses me greatly!
I dig this!
Good Stuff Bede ...nuff respect
Yes Wallace is with Exodus ...still working hard and still putting out sweet Pans ..Listen to the tone of Exodus
Salah
That's another thing, Bede.
I'm no expert but it seems to me that back then there was a distinct difference between a double tenor and a double second.
I don't know the technological difference in the notes etc, but I know they were completely different pans.They sounded differently and were used differently.
I'm assuming it changed when arrangers and players demanded of the tuners that the double second be tuned as a lead pan, and the tuners accommodated them.
Nowadays to the casual observer or listener it is difficult to tell the difference.
You see, it's not really the sweetness, it's the tone, Wallace tone used to be a BARKING tone, I will tell you all something, when I took my pan to Birch, he told me that the tone that Wallace gave on my Double Tenor, he cannot give it to me. It's a special technic, after Birch tune my Double Tenor it end up just being sweet instead of that Barking tone. When a Properly tuned Double Tenor with that Barking tone, it gives the band a better sound, you can hear a different instrument in the band. Lots of good tuners will tune a Double Tenor and it sounds like a sweet Double second, you dont hear that different tone in the band. When I used to play in West Side Symphony(bwia sunjets) I used to play a 3 pan that was called "Echophone", that pan did not sound like a Second pan, it had a complete different tone, "Rock" was the only one that made that (bless his soul)
Bede, just for your information, I remember Burch tuned some sweet double tenors for Scarlet Symphony in 65,66.
I don't remember if Southern Marines had any before the break, but if they did Burch would also have been involved, he was loyal to the Marabella bands..
Then in '67 when I joined Silvertones (after the music festival in which the placed second in the un-sponsored category) they also had some sweet double tenors that were tuned either by Alan Gervais or Errol Moore who worked with Alan at the time.
Anyone remembering Silvertones from back then would remember how sweet the pans were
This is back in the sixties and we talking about some of the best tuners ever.
Incidentally, Alan also tuned for Solo Harmonites in that era.
So we have a lot of great tuners who tuned double tenors
. IMHO, its almost impossible to tell who was the best without hearing all of them.
(Sometimes I feel like Chalkdust: I've been in town too long)
Steve, I always used to say that Wallace Austin was the best Double Tenor tuner, ask pan people from City Symphony and they will tell you, ask Mikey Mills, Cordell (Spongy) Barbour (the sweetest Double Tenor player ever). Wallace had left NY and went back home and he was the tuner for Exodus, but all that time he really was not too well, and I guess age and illness caught up with him, he might be still at Exodus sitting back, but I hope he is ok. I havent been home in 12 yrs, hoping when I go home he is alright
Truthfully, I dont know if chroming enhance the sound but am sure it prevents rust and your pan should last longer, and again, if you take care of it and not have it out of a case whiled being stored or you have your pan set up where somebody allways walking into it, your wife or who ever walking out of the kitchen with a pot of Calallo and spilling over it, etc
Ian Franklin commented on Professor Liam Teague's chello piece vid that they were not Chromed but painted Pans which had a lovely sound and he expressed the same feelings which you Bede stated here .I am asking do chroming enhance the sound or prevents corrosion which in turn gives you a longer lasting Instrument . ? GRJ and Ian what's your take on this ? Thanks .
Bede you mention Wallace , well I remember the first time I saw him he brought a Double Tenor he had made for us in Texaco West Stars and it was played by our Arranger Steve Regis . Steve knew him and his ability so I suppose he ordered it . To me it was the " SWEETESS " sounding Pan and Steve being a Pan Maestro had the ability to make it "Talk" as we say . Haven't heard of Wallace for quite a while . Is he still Tuning ?
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