Posted by momo on September 11, 2009 at 4:39pm in News
as far a this year j'ouvert went some of the bands had many problem
because the people running it did what they wanted and not what the
bands wanted i no because i was with MOODS we was all set to go at the time that it was sopose to start and the police told us we could not plus it had a couple of other bands that was therer also who was ready to go
who ever made the plans with the police did not out line what was sopose to happen to the bands
i am hearing that a couple of the bands was stop from playing because the police say the time was over i have many question to asked why was the j'ouvert not start on time when there was bands there ready to go what give the police the right to start it when ever they want 2why was the people who was sopose to be running it did not step in 3 why was USSA left out last year USSA payed the insurance for all the bands this year all the bands had to come up with they own money and the thing that bothers me is that the same people who is running the J 'ouvert has not payed any steel band since last year yet we still soport them like blind mice .all we did was go from the pot WIADCA to the frying panJ'OUVERT CITY but at least the pot pay's?????a little money when will it end every where is the same thing the steel band gets no respect MONEEEEEEEEY??????
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No, I dont think it was a bust. It was delayed for too long. The interested groups and the City should work with the Police and come up with a solid plan. As for the money thing it happens all arround. Who get, who eh get.Remember the kids that has to practice, then get up for school, thinking about pan all day and not there school work. In a pan side the Captain first, the arranger then the tuner.Every one else see for themselves where the money is concern.
All that I had heard of Jourvert Celebrations in New York prior to this my first encounter with the event could not have prepared me for what I experienced on the morning of Monday September 9 2009. We had planned this New York getaway since late last year and the only thing on my mind when we first envisaged the vacation was Jourvert in New York...well Panorama too...but to a lesser extent. My long-standing Pan Tuner friend Learie Harrigin, who has been resident in Brooklyn for a number of years had always boasted that "Trinidad ent want nutten with New York Jouvert". I had always wondered about this "boast", since over the last ten to fifteen yearsI have witnessed the demise of almost all steelband involvement on morning in Trinidad and I dare say in our Carnival as a whole. Gone are the days when we used to chip and "beat pan" on the road for Carnival. A panman had to know how to manouvere the potholes and drains and deal with the sudden stops and jerks of the pan rack while playing on the road. It was an art I tell you, but sadly it is no more. So come this Jourvert morning in New York. My relatives on Staten Island had invited us visiting Trinis over for a Labour Day Sunday Lime and I never got back "home" till two a.m. Not wanting to miss a beat I donned my intended jourvert clothes and after a two-and-a-half hour cat nap was up and ready to go by five a.m. Mind you this was my first trip alone since we landed in New York two weeks before. My wife will give me fatigue for years, since prior to jourvert morning I was always hesitant to learn how to get around the big city by myself. But is Jourvert ...I gone...if ah lorse..ah lorse. All I was told was take the No 12 bus on Empire. That I did, and thus met two charming Trini ladies who graciosly guided me to Nostrand Avenue and eventually the ongoing happy procession. Nothing, as I said before could have prepared me for the next five hours. I remain amazed at how many people I know in New York now. Old friends, sone of whom I had not seen in forty...yes forty years. The best thing about the Jourvert was what Learie had "boasted" about. NO DEEJAY...ONLY PAN. The bands were just the right size for a Jourvert Morning jump as I remember it. Ole Mas with political commentary, mud, oil, mock snake et al. II had to pinch myself at times to make sure I had not gone about twenty years back in time in Port of Spain. I can go on and ramble about this experience till I bore readers. This is just to say that I had a balll...Like any growing event anywhere there will be slip-ups and I can hear that from reading the earlier comments to this post. All will never go well for everybody, and maybe it shouldn't because if it does we have nothign to improve on in the future. For me... I was a proud Trinibagonian in New York on the morning of Monday September 9, 2009. Hats off to the organizers of the entire West Indian Day Celebrations. I enjoyed every single minute of it.
wmlpan > merrytonestotheboneSeptember 27, 2009 at 10:45pm
Hi Merrytones,
Personally, as a transplanted Caribbeanite, I am really pleased to hear how much you enjoyed J'Ouvert in NY. Things have changed over the years, and while the steelbands people, jouvert mas bands and ole mas characters maintain the spirit, there are still things of concern.
As a visiting Trini, you looked at and experienced the j'ouvert from a nostalgic viewpoint, how things were in Trinidad, but now may not be; this is especially for NY's emphasis on only steelbands on the road for J'Ouvert. But those of us who go to Jouvert every year on Empire, keep a real cautious eye on the 'authorities' aka NYPD. Each year, there are more restrictions, and more of some who throw their weight around. You find some cops who don't mind pulling 'Jouvert duty' and being around the bands. Some chip along, and a few even dance. Then as you move around you run into the others who are a little less sociable. Then there are the downright nasty ones whose sole reason for being out there, is that was their duty roster, and being around a bunch of happy, celebrating, and sometimes muddy Black people, is the very last thing they signed up for on the force.
Every year, some of these select few 'up the ante' on how they will throw their muscle around. This is a case in point this past jouvert: there was Empire Blvd. - empty - the bands had not begun to make their way down yet. However, in one area, incredibly, patrol cars began to 'literally' herd - like animals, people who were milling around in the street, waiting for the jouvert to start, and forced them onto the sidewalks. At the same time, an nypd bullhorn was loud at work, commanding the people to clear the street.
Wow! This is j'ouvert - and one of the characteristics is that people celebrate in the streets.
Further down the road and a few minutes later, there was another NYPD muscle power play unfolding. For some unknown reason, one paddy wagon full of officers left the roadway, which was crystal clear, and slowly but determinedly drove up onto a crowded sidewalk of spectators of about eight people deep, forcing them to part and make way - and for no reason, other than one officer got out and walked around the van, and then calmly got back into the van. They then simply backed out back into the street after several seconds.
For a visiting Trini, again, happy that you enjoyed yourself. That is a testimony to the work of the organizers and participants - steelbands, characters, and bands. But it is important that people understand what operating within the NY environment means, and the impact of the actions of the 'authorities' within a community that is alien to several of them who pull the 'duty roster' for that shift. We have a different understanding and sense of awareness from that of someone such as yourself who is experiencing j'ouvert for the first time, and perhaps even the parkway later on in the day.
The fortunes of steelbands in New York are a mixed bag in general. Some years are better than others. And some years have been notorious. Have a look at the following article called - The Steelband Raids - Has the City Declared War on the West Indian Carnival?www.villagevoice.com/2000-08-29/news/the-steelband-raids. If you talk to some pan people, they will probably tell you that every thing is just a step away from things going down the drain - and that includes the J'Ouvert. Everything is always hanging precariously in the balance. Just a change in leadership at the top, or at a particular precinct, the commander, or the Division head, can result in pure, pure hell for the Steelbands. Some people literally despise and hate pan, and J'Ouvert. And the problems resurface or are stepped up, when these people move into positions of authority with a simple changing of the guard.
This is also a good time to pay respect to the reason that we have a NY J'Ouvert in the first place. J'Ouvert in Brooklyn, NY was begun some years aback in the mid 1980s by a few very dedicated and young panmen from Pan Rebels steelband, such as Gary Rogers, Anthony Trebuse, Michelle Williams, Brian Nicholas, and several others. Check page 3 of this article - www.citylore.org/pdf/jouvert.pdf. And though they appear to be no longer involved with the management and actual production of NY J'ouvert, it is important that their roles be recognized and documented. It is a credit to the group who now run things, Jouvert City International that to this point, they have remained insistent that Steelbands and rhythm sections alone rule the road for J'Ouvert, and true to its beginnings by Pan Rebels steelband, and that DJ's are not allowed to literally exterminate the traditional musical accompaniment, which is the case in Trini.
Also, one more thing: the people who produce the panorama at the museum - WIADCA - and all the lead-up events to Labor day, and the Eastern Parkway parade itself, have absolutely nothing to do with the J'Ouvert celebrations. Rumor even has it that one year the organization tried to shut down the Jouvert by calling in the 'authorities.'
Also, one more thing: the people who produce the panorama at the museum - WIADCA - and all the lead-up events to Labor day, and the Eastern Parkway parade itself, have absolutely nothing to do with the J'Ouvert celebrations. Rumor even has it that one year the organization tried to shut down the Jouvert by calling in the 'authorities.'
I think as visitors people just naturally assume that everything is one, but it is important to set the record straight, as many people read this forum as a source of information..
Michael Browne > merrytonestotheboneSeptember 21, 2009 at 3:34pm
You struck a tone in me with your statement:
"A panman had to know how to manouvere the potholes and drains and deal with the sudden stops and jerks of the pan rack while playing on the road. It was an art I tell you,"
Well I played double second in a rolling rack for the first time this year in New York. Before that I played congas on a small float. But this year I had to learn quickly the art of manuevering the pan rack (including jumping in and out while moving for an occasional player swap, chip, whine etc) Repect to the Truck driver for keeping it slow and steady haahahhaha
I had a great time and Im sorry it comes only once a yr.
By the way we were ready to setup and start to play on time very close to the library but the police made us keep moving without letting us stop to setup. They moved us all the way down almost to Empire and wouldnt let us stop to setup and play until almost 5am
Catt > merrytonestotheboneSeptember 20, 2009 at 11:25am
ahhh merryotnes you will NEVER bore us! what a wonderful post - !! I remember the first time i went to Jouvert in TnT and how SHOCKED i was that the big deejay trucks had infiltrated the jouvert, and so disappointed that it wasn't 'pan and pan only', as jouvert should be. all along i haven't said anything for fear it was sacrilege to actually say out loud that the NY jouvert was actually better and more old-style, than the Real Thing in port of spain has become..... i missed it this year (gave up brooklyn for the Grand Canyon, which was indeed, Grand - ) but you can be sure i won't be missing it again. it's always a great time!
more pan more pan more pan!!!!
momo > merrytonestotheboneSeptember 20, 2009 at 5:18am
marrytones i had friends come up from trinidad and got to take part in J'ouvert they all had great things to say about it .every year the steelband keeps inproving but what are we getting out of it the police racing us offf HASSEL HASSEL HASSEL
we need to promote it better not one major television station brings it live????? every year the product keeps getting better but ????????
Dear Moods Pan Player: I feel your pains and I can suggest this, that is, as you know we meet with the 67th Patrol Borough Brooklyn South (PBBS) and we iron out every detail of what should take place. Somehow, when J'Ouvert morning comes its a horse of a different color. At JCI's recent meeting last Friday, Sept. 11th, we suggested meeting with the MAS and PAN and the Precinct in the next couple weeks, and you will get notice of that shortly, via email and telephone. Regarding the insurance, monies we got will not become available to us until 2010. Although we are looking at a "December" Awards Show - we just don't know yet if it will be possible, but keeping our hopes up. Believe me there is no reason for JCI to hold back monies from the steelbands or the masbands. We share your pains, your anguish, we know deep down in our guts how the PAN PLAYER feels and I can only say that the PAN GROUPS who won the J'Ouvert will get their awards and we are looking forward to 2010 as a banner year for J'Ouvert City. It was a first year for JCI to have grand marshals and that could have held up the process because of PBBS concerns for safety and security, which is what they told us. Also, bands who were in the front did not want to come down to get the J'Ouvert started and Danville, our President and other assistants went up to the Flatbush/Grand Army route to get them started. What we learned this year from that experience can only help us to improve for the next rounds. So, don't give up. Situations came in why our insurance went up. Once someone gets hurt on the route it shoots up our insurance cost why it was so high for 2009. As far as I'm aware I was told two players from MOODS got hurt, and one seriously hurt from RADOES at this recent J'Ouvert. At our upcoming meeting, please bring your dis-satisfactions and we will see what can be done! Thank you for your comments!
Hazel John
Secretary & co-Founder
J'Ouvert City International, Inc. (JCI)
338 Utica Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11213
Email: jouvertcityintl@yahoo.com
Tel: 718-756-2814
Fax: 718-604-9309
Dear Hazel John thanks for that reply. first i must say you address some of the things that went wrong and i am thank full for that ,but let's look at the things that you did not address, the insurance. you said that anytime some one gets hurt on the route it shoot up the insurance but my question is how would the insurance company no someone was hurt ,when most of the time it was not even reported ,did that person or person's file an insurance claim .and i have spoken to some of the band leaders they all said they had to pay for there own insurance as opose to last year when USSA payed for all the bands ??????
i am not going to point fingers because deep down all the people involve has a great love for the steel pan/band
but what we need to understand is that we are playing with a gold mine and we still can't strike gold yet we need people who are schooled in marketing promotion the whole works people who could get MR NIKE Mc DONALD BEGER KING PEPSI COKE CHENNEL 2 4 5 7 9 13 USA HBO ESPN BET MSG to get involve to sell our product's
Dear Ms. John: Hopefully your organization should address some of the plights of the Masqueraders. First we were told to meet the Band at Rogers avenue & Eastern Parkway for 3:30AM, when we got there, Eastern Parkway and cross streets was still opened to the public traffic. The Police were present, riding in and out of the Bands in a Van, full with officers at the start of the Parade. There were lots of confusion and masqueraders, who spent $85.00 for costume, were feeling unsafe and threatned by the Grenadian and Hatian bands who were dressed up in Tee Shirts & MUD. I made mentionen of the Origin of the Band because they were proudly wearing their flags and colours. They were pushing and shoving paid masqueraders who had to run either on the side or huddle up in the middle of the street to get away from being trampled. Secondly, the parade never started the time that was given by the official (we were told, "the Police did not want the Parade to begin that early", ( wasn't there a time designated or agreed upon by your organization and the Police?). There should be some addressing of NONE Costume players taking over the J'Ouvert or Carnival in general, (the same is being done of The Parkway during the day session)! It is becoming a big Tee Shirt party with no control or decency what so ever. The essence of what J'Ouvert is all about is lost and we are going to lose our cultural expression because we don't know how to preserve something other's have worked so hard to achieve. Everyone is just concerned about the money they can make and not about the Culture of the Carnival. The organizers of these Mas Bands are not intrested in what the masqueraders have to say but only concerned about the money their bands generate. I am sure there are more voices out there complaining about this situation.
my wife, Mrs Gospel was saying the same thing you said,
That "The essence of what J'Ouvert is all about is lost and we are going to lose our cultural expression because we don't know how to preserve something other's have worked so hard to achieve."
and that there is "no control or decency what so ever"
Replies
Personally, as a transplanted Caribbeanite, I am really pleased to hear how much you enjoyed J'Ouvert in NY. Things have changed over the years, and while the steelbands people, jouvert mas bands and ole mas characters maintain the spirit, there are still things of concern.
As a visiting Trini, you looked at and experienced the j'ouvert from a nostalgic viewpoint, how things were in Trinidad, but now may not be; this is especially for NY's emphasis on only steelbands on the road for J'Ouvert. But those of us who go to Jouvert every year on Empire, keep a real cautious eye on the 'authorities' aka NYPD. Each year, there are more restrictions, and more of some who throw their weight around. You find some cops who don't mind pulling 'Jouvert duty' and being around the bands. Some chip along, and a few even dance. Then as you move around you run into the others who are a little less sociable. Then there are the downright nasty ones whose sole reason for being out there, is that was their duty roster, and being around a bunch of happy, celebrating, and sometimes muddy Black people, is the very last thing they signed up for on the force.
Every year, some of these select few 'up the ante' on how they will throw their muscle around. This is a case in point this past jouvert: there was Empire Blvd. - empty - the bands had not begun to make their way down yet. However, in one area, incredibly, patrol cars began to 'literally' herd - like animals, people who were milling around in the street, waiting for the jouvert to start, and forced them onto the sidewalks. At the same time, an nypd bullhorn was loud at work, commanding the people to clear the street.
Wow! This is j'ouvert - and one of the characteristics is that people celebrate in the streets.
Further down the road and a few minutes later, there was another NYPD muscle power play unfolding. For some unknown reason, one paddy wagon full of officers left the roadway, which was crystal clear, and slowly but determinedly drove up onto a crowded sidewalk of spectators of about eight people deep, forcing them to part and make way - and for no reason, other than one officer got out and walked around the van, and then calmly got back into the van. They then simply backed out back into the street after several seconds.
For a visiting Trini, again, happy that you enjoyed yourself. That is a testimony to the work of the organizers and participants - steelbands, characters, and bands. But it is important that people understand what operating within the NY environment means, and the impact of the actions of the 'authorities' within a community that is alien to several of them who pull the 'duty roster' for that shift. We have a different understanding and sense of awareness from that of someone such as yourself who is experiencing j'ouvert for the first time, and perhaps even the parkway later on in the day.
The fortunes of steelbands in New York are a mixed bag in general. Some years are better than others. And some years have been notorious. Have a look at the following article called - The Steelband Raids - Has the City Declared War on the West Indian Carnival? www.villagevoice.com/2000-08-29/news/the-steelband-raids. If you talk to some pan people, they will probably tell you that every thing is just a step away from things going down the drain - and that includes the J'Ouvert. Everything is always hanging precariously in the balance. Just a change in leadership at the top, or at a particular precinct, the commander, or the Division head, can result in pure, pure hell for the Steelbands. Some people literally despise and hate pan, and J'Ouvert. And the problems resurface or are stepped up, when these people move into positions of authority with a simple changing of the guard.
This is also a good time to pay respect to the reason that we have a NY J'Ouvert in the first place. J'Ouvert in Brooklyn, NY was begun some years aback in the mid 1980s by a few very dedicated and young panmen from Pan Rebels steelband, such as Gary Rogers, Anthony Trebuse, Michelle Williams, Brian Nicholas, and several others. Check page 3 of this article - www.citylore.org/pdf/jouvert.pdf. And though they appear to be no longer involved with the management and actual production of NY J'ouvert, it is important that their roles be recognized and documented. It is a credit to the group who now run things, Jouvert City International that to this point, they have remained insistent that Steelbands and rhythm sections alone rule the road for J'Ouvert, and true to its beginnings by Pan Rebels steelband, and that DJ's are not allowed to literally exterminate the traditional musical accompaniment, which is the case in Trini.
Also, one more thing: the people who produce the panorama at the museum - WIADCA - and all the lead-up events to Labor day, and the Eastern Parkway parade itself, have absolutely nothing to do with the J'Ouvert celebrations. Rumor even has it that one year the organization tried to shut down the Jouvert by calling in the 'authorities.'
Also, one more thing: the people who produce the panorama at the museum - WIADCA - and all the lead-up events to Labor day, and the Eastern Parkway parade itself, have absolutely nothing to do with the J'Ouvert celebrations. Rumor even has it that one year the organization tried to shut down the Jouvert by calling in the 'authorities.'
I think as visitors people just naturally assume that everything is one, but it is important to set the record straight, as many people read this forum as a source of information..
"A panman had to know how to manouvere the potholes and drains and deal with the sudden stops and jerks of the pan rack while playing on the road. It was an art I tell you,"
Well I played double second in a rolling rack for the first time this year in New York. Before that I played congas on a small float. But this year I had to learn quickly the art of manuevering the pan rack (including jumping in and out while moving for an occasional player swap, chip, whine etc) Repect to the Truck driver for keeping it slow and steady haahahhaha
I had a great time and Im sorry it comes only once a yr.
By the way we were ready to setup and start to play on time very close to the library but the police made us keep moving without letting us stop to setup. They moved us all the way down almost to Empire and wouldnt let us stop to setup and play until almost 5am
more pan more pan more pan!!!!
we need to promote it better not one major television station brings it live????? every year the product keeps getting better but ????????
Dear Moods Pan Player: I feel your pains and I can suggest this, that is, as you know we meet with the 67th Patrol Borough Brooklyn South (PBBS) and we iron out every detail of what should take place. Somehow, when J'Ouvert morning comes its a horse of a different color. At JCI's recent meeting last Friday, Sept. 11th, we suggested meeting with the MAS and PAN and the Precinct in the next couple weeks, and you will get notice of that shortly, via email and telephone. Regarding the insurance, monies we got will not become available to us until 2010. Although we are looking at a "December" Awards Show - we just don't know yet if it will be possible, but keeping our hopes up. Believe me there is no reason for JCI to hold back monies from the steelbands or the masbands. We share your pains, your anguish, we know deep down in our guts how the PAN PLAYER feels and I can only say that the PAN GROUPS who won the J'Ouvert will get their awards and we are looking forward to 2010 as a banner year for J'Ouvert City. It was a first year for JCI to have grand marshals and that could have held up the process because of PBBS concerns for safety and security, which is what they told us. Also, bands who were in the front did not want to come down to get the J'Ouvert started and Danville, our President and other assistants went up to the Flatbush/Grand Army route to get them started. What we learned this year from that experience can only help us to improve for the next rounds. So, don't give up. Situations came in why our insurance went up. Once someone gets hurt on the route it shoots up our insurance cost why it was so high for 2009. As far as I'm aware I was told two players from MOODS got hurt, and one seriously hurt from RADOES at this recent J'Ouvert. At our upcoming meeting, please bring your dis-satisfactions and we will see what can be done! Thank you for your comments!
Hazel John
Secretary & co-Founder
J'Ouvert City International, Inc. (JCI)
338 Utica Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11213
Email: jouvertcityintl@yahoo.com
Tel: 718-756-2814
Fax: 718-604-9309
i am not going to point fingers because deep down all the people involve has a great love for the steel pan/band
but what we need to understand is that we are playing with a gold mine and we still can't strike gold yet we need people who are schooled in marketing promotion the whole works people who could get MR NIKE Mc DONALD BEGER KING PEPSI COKE CHENNEL 2 4 5 7 9 13 USA HBO ESPN BET MSG to get involve to sell our product's
my wife, Mrs Gospel was saying the same thing you said,
That "The essence of what J'Ouvert is all about is lost and we are going to lose our cultural expression because we don't know how to preserve something other's have worked so hard to achieve."
and that there is "no control or decency what so ever"
It's a shame.
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