Please allow my humble input to this discussion. I have been blessed to be a part of this fraternity for the past 34 years, and as the saying goes, "History repeats itself".
It has always been my strongest belief that there's nothing like an arranger growing with a band, for the best results. Changing arrangers too regularly somewhat disorient players after becoming adjusted to an arranger.
Some years ago, I personally commented to officials of Starlift that the decision to replace Annise "Haffers" Hadeed with Ray Holman would go down as the gravest mistake ever made in Starlift's Panorama History.
This was in no way meant to discredit my good friend Ray, but to subject this new breed of players, now becoming adjusted to "Haffers'" styling, to revert to Ray's styling. When players are dancing during regular practice sessions at the Panyard, then it demonstrates that they are motivated and relating to the music. Upon Ray's return, the players simply stood like Palace Guards behind their instruments.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, Haffers took Starlift to a Final for the three years (I think) he worked with Starlift.
I agree with Randi about Ray's music being too rich for the panorama judges, and maybe even for the casual pan music fan.
I have a feeling though, that Ray's musical contributions will stand the test of time, and future generations will respect his music and study it as they study great classical compositions.
Did you all notice how Boogsie Sharpe went out of his way to praise Ray Holman on the Panorama DVD?.
The respect of one great pan musician, arranger,and composer for another was very evident.
I think Ray's music may be too "classical" for today's Panorama.
This is great for the artform, but may not produce Panorama wins.
That's why Ray is probably best served by working with another arranger like Boogsie for Panorama, an arranger that can balance Ray's classical instincts with a more contemporary feel.
History, however, will record Ray Holman as one of the greatest, most innovative and influential pan arrangers , probably of all time..
Larry Lai > Glenroy R JosephSeptember 7, 2011 at 12:35pm
Hey Glenroy,
I totally agree when you say that Ray's music is probably too high for our Panorama Judges, however, I have to disagree with your suggestion that Ray (my good friend) is best served working with Boogsie.
In my humble opinion, Ray is a Pioneer, World Renown Composer and Arranger, and should not subject himself to this "Demotion" as a Drill Master for any other arranger.
I get your point, Larry. What I was trying to suggest that I get the feeling from Ray's music that he is not arranging a piece to dazzle the crowd or the judges, he is just making great music.
Almost as if he doesn't give a hoot about the judges or the crowd reaction.
The judges recognize the quality of his music and the will give him a place, but never a win.
I think he also knows this, but is unwilling to compromise.
Listen to Boogsie's early Panorama arrangements. He too was concentrating on just making great music until he realized that to win Panorama, just great music wasn't enough.
You had to add that razzle dazzzle to excite the crowd and influence the judges
So he made the necessary changes (compromises?), and became one of the arrangers to beat every year.
Ray on the other hand,(to me at least) seems unable or unwilling to compromise.
Cecil hinkson > Glenroy R JosephSeptember 7, 2011 at 7:06pm
Glenroy, Ray would NEVER compromise with his music.
Cecil hinkson > Larry LaiSeptember 7, 2011 at 12:50pm
Larry, Ray is paid for his services, it's better than not working for the season, plus Boogsie don't like to drill. The only difference with "Haffers" music is the tempo might be up ah bit from Ray's, all that he knows he learnt from Ray.
Cecil hinkson > Glenroy R JosephSeptember 7, 2011 at 12:27pm
Glenroy, Ray music is different, people don't like his music because they are forced to LISTEN, in panorama when Rays music is being played the place get quiet, and when he's finish they clap their hands. The judges don't know how to mark his performance because it is not like the other bands, so they give him a low mark. This has been Ray problem since he started doing his own music for panorama. Ray don't try to impress the judges or the crowd but he always give us what he feels is the best music that he can.
Andre White is an excellent arranger,he along with Arddin and Popwell are three of the young top arrangers that stands out among the pack of future arrangers.Now if I was advising Sforzata and Andre White, I would tell the band to think about their future and immediately try to move up to the large band category,if Andre would be willing to move with them,I would also say to Andre- you are the new kid on the block,try and build something new,Going to any top band,who have their own arranger is not the best move You are young,your purpose should be to build not to renovate.I am from a large band and I want to see some more competition up there.At the moment there are about 16 therefore all make it to the semi-finals.If we have a total of about 18- 20 then they will be able to pick 14 to go the finals.
I have to agree with you Barry, Liam has really introduced some new ideas to us in Starlif,t and to change him just like that would be putting the band back. Andre obviously is a top arranger and has already made his mark with Sforzata. In 2009 something went wrong with the judging. After his band's brilliant performance on final night, the whole of the Grand Stand were shocked and amazed when Sforzata's name was called first (10th position) by the announcer.
In my humble view I would suggest to him to please NOT do an own composition at this time, let the judges hear him arrange a known piece for a few years as he has been doing in NY before attempting his own tune.
Congratulations to Andre and Arddin on their 2011 NY performances. Good luck Kenneth with Renegades next year and of course we are looking forward to working with you again in 2012 (and beyond) Liam.
Replies
Please allow my humble input to this discussion. I have been blessed to be a part of this fraternity for the past 34 years, and as the saying goes, "History repeats itself".
It has always been my strongest belief that there's nothing like an arranger growing with a band, for the best results. Changing arrangers too regularly somewhat disorient players after becoming adjusted to an arranger.
Some years ago, I personally commented to officials of Starlift that the decision to replace Annise "Haffers" Hadeed with Ray Holman would go down as the gravest mistake ever made in Starlift's Panorama History.
This was in no way meant to discredit my good friend Ray, but to subject this new breed of players, now becoming adjusted to "Haffers'" styling, to revert to Ray's styling. When players are dancing during regular practice sessions at the Panyard, then it demonstrates that they are motivated and relating to the music. Upon Ray's return, the players simply stood like Palace Guards behind their instruments.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, Haffers took Starlift to a Final for the three years (I think) he worked with Starlift.
I agree with Randi about Ray's music being too rich for the panorama judges, and maybe even for the casual pan music fan.
I have a feeling though, that Ray's musical contributions will stand the test of time, and future generations will respect his music and study it as they study great classical compositions.
Did you all notice how Boogsie Sharpe went out of his way to praise Ray Holman on the Panorama DVD?.
The respect of one great pan musician, arranger,and composer for another was very evident.
I think Ray's music may be too "classical" for today's Panorama.
This is great for the artform, but may not produce Panorama wins.
That's why Ray is probably best served by working with another arranger like Boogsie for Panorama, an arranger that can balance Ray's classical instincts with a more contemporary feel.
History, however, will record Ray Holman as one of the greatest, most innovative and influential pan arrangers , probably of all time..
Hey Glenroy,
I totally agree when you say that Ray's music is probably too high for our Panorama Judges, however, I have to disagree with your suggestion that Ray (my good friend) is best served working with Boogsie.
In my humble opinion, Ray is a Pioneer, World Renown Composer and Arranger, and should not subject himself to this "Demotion" as a Drill Master for any other arranger.
I get your point, Larry. What I was trying to suggest that I get the feeling from Ray's music that he is not arranging a piece to dazzle the crowd or the judges, he is just making great music.
Almost as if he doesn't give a hoot about the judges or the crowd reaction.
The judges recognize the quality of his music and the will give him a place, but never a win.
I think he also knows this, but is unwilling to compromise.
Listen to Boogsie's early Panorama arrangements. He too was concentrating on just making great music until he realized that to win Panorama, just great music wasn't enough.
You had to add that razzle dazzzle to excite the crowd and influence the judges
So he made the necessary changes (compromises?), and became one of the arrangers to beat every year.
Ray on the other hand,(to me at least) seems unable or unwilling to compromise.
Andre White is an excellent arranger,he along with Arddin and Popwell are three of the young top arrangers that stands out among the pack of future arrangers.Now if I was advising Sforzata and Andre White, I would tell the band to think about their future and immediately try to move up to the large band category,if Andre would be willing to move with them,I would also say to Andre- you are the new kid on the block,try and build something new,Going to any top band,who have their own arranger is not the best move You are young,your purpose should be to build not to renovate.I am from a large band and I want to see some more competition up there.At the moment there are about 16 therefore all make it to the semi-finals.If we have a total of about 18- 20 then they will be able to pick 14 to go the finals.
I have to agree with you Barry, Liam has really introduced some new ideas to us in Starlif,t and to change him just like that would be putting the band back. Andre obviously is a top arranger and has already made his mark with Sforzata. In 2009 something went wrong with the judging. After his band's brilliant performance on final night, the whole of the Grand Stand were shocked and amazed when Sforzata's name was called first (10th position) by the announcer.
In my humble view I would suggest to him to please NOT do an own composition at this time, let the judges hear him arrange a known piece for a few years as he has been doing in NY before attempting his own tune.
Congratulations to Andre and Arddin on their 2011 NY performances. Good luck Kenneth with Renegades next year and of course we are looking forward to working with you again in 2012 (and beyond) Liam.
Great things are ahead for us at Starlift.
MD
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