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The thing is , sometimes we get so caught up in thoughts , ideas , and opinions , that we forget reality .

The reality is that we've never standardized TUNING, and since we still have pioneering tuners around,  some of whom may still have their preferences, there is no urgency to do so.

Then you have the steelbands themselves, who have made substantial investments in their pans, and pans are not cheap.

I don't know if it's changed, but I doubt anyone would join a steelband because of the styling. You just use the pans that are there, so there is no real incentive for the bands to change their pans.

So the bands will maintain these pans as long as they can ,and probably add to them when necessary.

(Probably unless someone may wish to buy them out which is highly unlikely.)

 

And then we have personal preferences, and that's like religion and many would like to maintain theirs, and not have the "government " force a style on them.

 

So there you are.

Just a few things to think about when you talk of standardization.

 

Personally, I think this is one area where the market will choose, and I think we are seeing it already.

Panists are deciding on which formats are the best and most practical, and those are the ones they wish to use.

Over time the market will choose the format.

And, maybe that 's the way it should be.

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I'm happy to see that the topics about pan that have been bothering me for years are coming out into the light.Just as the previous discussion had merit so does this one which brings us to the same arena.Do we want the gereral public interested in pan or is it a private party. Al the other instruments of the world are standardized,is that a bad thing,the only time a change is made is with guitars from left hand to right and that's just the strings. They do however upgrade like the bass guitar added strings and the reed section change a lot to provide tonal difference but the fingering remains the same just as the stringed instruments and the keys.  Now back to the arena,if we want pan to ever be as popular as its counterparts then a potential player should be able to walk into a panyard of his choosing and puschase one with the confidence that if his cousin's was destroyed he could borrow one regardless of its origin. Make sense? Or maybe we would like to ignore the satisfaction of the inventors and restrict it to as we say "we thing"...  just a family joke fellas,,My dad Cyril Diaz and Johnny Gomez used to borrow each others saxophone when they got gigs that only stopped when they started to compete with each other, they couldn't do that if dad's sax was customized for Maraval saxaphonists only..LOL

ps..My first pan was made by Bertram in the late 60s 4ths and 5ths from the left, some wizard changed it to the right instead now the pros? none really,the cons? I cant play my nephews pan and he cant play mine...go figure..

Bob, and actually according to the Circle of Fifths it should be from the Left, the Fifths on the left and the Fourths on the right, Now if the Mecca (as Cecil would say) decides that it should be to the right and the majority of the Professional Pan tuners and Builders and the World over say so then lets Standardized the Pan now, as time goes by there will be Additions but the Standardization will be there, WE HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE AT SOMETIME AND THAT TIME IS NOW!  

Notice that I've not said that standardization is a bad idea,

I think it's a great idea.

I once knew this guy from Concord, New Hampshire who fell in love with the steelband and acquired a pan somewhere.

He wanted to play with a steelband , so we put him In touch with a Boston steelband , but he found that his pan was "different", and he wasn't sufficiently skilled to do it.

So I understand the need.

I'm just talking about the realities we face.

After all, what would you do, pass a law and then hunt down and destroy all the "illegal" pans"?

Changing around the notes on the pan isn't the same as moving around the strings on a guitar, which has been done by many left handed guitarists. or rearranging the keys on a piano.

And besides the layout of those instruments aren't optional. or based on preference.

If you all were observing the Junior Panorama you would have seen the first six or seven Primary School Bands using the same pans under the tent on stage as they did not have racks. The primary schools that recieve pans from the Multicultural Music Programme Unit (formerly Pan in the Classroom Unit) all receive the same style of pans. Students from one school can perform in a function at another school without having to transport their pans. I have witnessed this myself. Therefore we conclude that there is standardization in the primary schools. It was also encouraging to see a Primary School using the pans provided on stage for Junior Panorama dethrone the previous winner who used their own pans. Maybe next Junior Panorama we may see more primary schools using the pans provided and thereby cutting the transportation cost. The Multicultrual Music Programme Unit (Pan in the Classroom Unit) is leading the way.

Wayne

             Thanks for that information, my sentiments exactly. 

Wayne, that's an A1 Plus, think about how many Steelbands that can come and take Part in our Panorama or Music Festival, More income for everybody, It's the Big Picture the people in the Mecca not paying attention to.

Question, Does any body knows if Ellie is also tuning 4ths and 5ths Tenors? Somebody had told me yes,

If I am a Tuner and my Style is not selected as the Standardized Style, I will just have to get with Program and start learning to Tune that Style, That's all bout it, Get with the Program. There are so much Tuners now all over the World that are tuning Top Class Instruments.

Bede Ellie has been tuning my pan for years which is 4ths and 5ths the allan style,Mapo has also tuned it and my original 1969 pan made by Errol More that's how I've survived these past 20 yrs.My main pan is a bore pan made by moore in 1996 before he died,since I have relied on Ellie and Mapo for tuning.Ellie has been going through hard times since he lost his partner Kathy but being the pro that he is tuning is in full force in West Virginia.

Bob, I never knew that Allan tuned 4ths and 5ths Tenor, well, then again, in my days I only knew him tuning the Invaders style with the F# in the middle, his tenors used to be Loud and sweet

Bob Diaz, we have something in common. Errol Moore who also worked with Allan, tuned the cellos and tenor bass pans I played with Silvertones in the late sixties- early seventies.
I was not aware that he had passed.
May he Rest in Peace.

Glenroy Its encouraging that we do have something in common don't you think? Unfortunately Errol died when he was about to make another pan for me...pity. One of the reasons I preffered his tuning is that all his notes were even in tonal quality and volume much like the piano and he had a 12 inch skirt to give depth to the tenor..yeah I miss him ..R.I.P. Errol Moore 

Take for instance, If I was still active playing out and into Panorama and so forth, my Pan  is an old Style Bertie Marshall Double tenor,(bout 40 yrs old)  they don't make those again, I would have to get with the Program and learn to play the Standardized Double Tenor. 

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