I most heartily agree that music (composed or as yet uncomposed) is out on the astral plane and "composers" are actually interpreters with the gift of allowing these waves to be channeled through them. However, I find your points on the "chicken or the egg" analogy to be somewhat theological and quite debatable. Remember it took God six days to create heaven and earth. I believe it is widely accepted that man could communicate verbally long before there was an alphabet, and allthough God may have given man the ability to create written language simultaneously with the ability to speak, clearly man did not do so untill much later and I can't see why music should be any different. If there is anything in scripture (Christian or otherwise since you choose a theological approach) to back up your theory please direct me to it and I'll be happy to give it due consideration.
I did not mean to cast aspersions on classically trained musicians (I'll admit that it certainly must seem so) as I was taught to read music at an early age and through the years have found it usefull (though by no means necessary). Having played with cats who read, as well as with cats who don't read music it strikes me that the literate ones may be TECNICALLY more proficient but they are mostly a bit stiff while the non literate players seem to be much more inspired and fun to listen to.
Also I'd like to say that I've had much success over the years learning songs by merely listening, whether it be a Bass part, Guitar part or Pan part; it is by no means impossible, it only takes time, concentration, and yes, a gift.
Sidd would you please keep quiet, I do not want to say shut up it might start you off again,Dave please forgive the board Administrators the topic went off the wall and it is not the comentators fault, we all received E-mails with comments by the administrators asking a Question "are pan men real musicians?" and it should have been a seperate thread but it was linked to your thread, I will not make too many comments on this as to why I think it happened, but pan is the results of a series of spontaneous reactions so is music, it needs not be defined, Dr bump gave a real honest reaction to an earth moving experience with this illustrious but humble artform we are all real musicians most humans the way we walk, talk, eat, sleep etc and them we transfer this into an audible expression and call it music as it hits the ear it assults the emotions and we reminise on it bringing a pleasure that cannot be explained, through years we in order to make this expression universal we created tools to help us better to use it, Dr Bump had a nice but rude awakening as he realised that enslaving oneself to these tools and depending wholeheartedly on it kills the authenticity of the expression itself which is supposed to be an apeal to our emotions which is best expressed from the heart rather than the brain, the pan musicians depend on the tools of their brain and use their emotions to reproduce them and this seems to be his point
I do believe you might be able to delete the discussion your self if you are tired of the "OLE(old) Talk" as we call it