In the ongoing debate over the recent posting of the video clip, titled, Boogsie the Greatest, one of my former “teachers”, Eric, solicited me to expand on my statement that “ramajay and jazz improve, are two entirely different things, with the former being disorganized, and the latter being organized”. I think that is a very relevant and important subject, especially when we assume the position of “the music critic”, or consider ourselves as being either, student, teacher, master, or musician. Granted, we all accept the distinct difference between “music” and “noise”, for even if we are unable to define them, we “know” what each sounds like. As a “student” (which is what I will ALWAYS consider myself), I have been fortunate to have great “teachers”, both in the panyard, and in college, and I have been “blessed” to work with some incredible musicians, some of whom are on this WST forum.
Before we discuss what exactly is “jazz improv”, we must be able to, firstly, define this music genre –jazz. Of course, the term “improvise” is familiar to most (if not all) of us; the “freedom” to play “at one’s pleasure. Ad lib(itum) In reality, jazz improv’s freedom, however, comes with a provision – there are still “rules to the game”, so to speak. Like “Freedom of Speech”, jazz adlibbing, does not invite one to abuse the “language”, rather, it still expects one to be disciplined, articulate, and responsible. At Washtenaw County Community College, the late Dr. Morris Lawrence Jr., actually created a mathematical formula for jazz, R = V x C, where R is repeat, V is variety and C is contrast, in explaining the AABA format. As jazz students, we also learn of the use of call and response, head-body-recapitulation approaches to “soloing”, et cetera. I fail to hear the same “organized” approach in ramajay, which apparently, has total “freedom” from (both) form and function. Even with the introduction of bebop and “hard bop”, jazz improv, still kept to certain “rules” of music, and when one listens to (say) John Coltrane on Giant Steps, we observe that, even in “speed”, he is not forcing air through his instrument. It is in his fingering and breathing techniques, that Coltrane got the speed, and it was his music acumen, that took him to the right notes, and use of the various dynamics and embellishments, that turn (disorganized) noise into (organized) music.
Sometimes, we appear to want to eat the proverbial cake and have it, for if we truly desire that the steel drum / pan, be accepted as any other instrument used in “Western music”, then we cannot make excuses, when music is sacrificed for noise. At Florida Memorial University, I know Dr. Batson would not have allowed ANY STUDENT to play the music department pans like that. NOT ONE. When I first started, Dr. B. used to always make me conscious of “note balance”, and if 100 notes had to be played at the same volume, every note had to be at the same volume. Of, course, I was never perfect, but that is what she set as the standard. This is why, players like Leon “Foster” Thomas, even when at “full speed”, still maintains control of his volume level. Jazz instructor, Melton Mustafa, also helped in shaping me to be a better student (and listener) of jazz improv, again, reiterating Dr. Lawrence’s lessons on motif, development, and recapping, and, certainly ramajay comes over as having no “head, body, and tail”, nor the usual elements of jazz improvisation. Understandably, by definition, it is “improv”, and we all enjoy the sound of pan, even if there is no distinguishable format, however, in a “musical” context, Boogsie certainly may have been ad libbing, but he definitely was not “organized”, nor representing what jazz improvisation is – organized improvisation.
How Jazz Musicians Improvise - Billy Taylor
Yours In Pan,
Pan’tum – The Ghost Who Talks. Honoring the Legacy of George “Sonny” Goddard
Replies
Me thinks thee analize too much.
Me analyze thee thinks too little.
No form of music (or anything else, for that matter) advances without pushing the envelope beyond what has been traditionally accepted. Ramajay was originally a creole word referring to the sound of birds, and although birds don't know the rules they, none the less, sound quite musical. Rules can get in the way of the imagination and what is considered noise today may well be considerd legitimate Jazz improv twenty years from now. I certainly wouldn't want to be restricted by a mathematical formula.
Philip, thanks for your mind-provoking comment. I was not suggesting that we should "restrict" ourselves to any "mathematical formula", and I'm not sure how you deducted that from what I wrote. Are you saying that there should be no distinguished differences between genres? It is that confusion, that make people believe that any music coming out of Jamaica is "reggae", not to mention, what is considered "soca" today. Regardless, I can tell when someone is abusing an instrument, a child, or a woman, as those "restrictions" will continue to exist; to "infinity", another "mathematical concept. ∞ Also, to assume that birds "don't know the rules", and are just some whistling "bird-brain" retards, really shows your lack of understanding of nature's living organisms, who all have the science and mathematics innate in them, and are more knowledgeable than most human beings, who can't even tell when a strorm is coming, unless tuned into the Weather Channel.
BTW - The concepts of "music" and "sound" are also mathematical. Hence, A4 = 440 Hz, note fractions 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc., the overtone series, scale formulas, intevals, number of beats per minute, and so on. As Descartes put it "everything can be defined in mathematical terms...". Mathematics does not deal only with what is tangible, and were it not for mathematical "constructs", we would not be able to quantify that which we cannot touch (sound, intelligence, etc.). I was simply showing one way of looking at what "jazz improv" is. If it becomes something else, 2000 years from now, a "mathematical" formula, could still be applied in defining it. (See: Twelve-Tone Serialism.)
GHOST
To the Ghost Who Talks,well i have studied Electronics on a home Study basis years ago, as a youth????in adding to your positive comment ,,the word is DISTORTION,,,,indirectly refering to the performance of Boogsie,s last , solo,with respect, now anyone in the said field specifically speaking Electronics would be able to get the picture where i,m coming from,,i,m always open to corrections.God Bless.
Yow Eric (bigmacttwi), as I agreed, ramajay is improvising, by definition. My point is: it is NOT "jazz improv". That confusion may help in explaining why some local panmen seem to think that "jazz is anything...", which, again, it is not. Again, the "freedom" in jazz, does not come with reckless abandoning of form or function. NO jazz soloist "ignores set melodies and chord structure", including John Coltane. What they do, is restructure or "expand the parameters". As noted in an online thesis, "In the 1960s, many jazz musicians, such as Ornette Coleman, Sun Ra, Charles Mingus, and Eric Dolphy, expanded the parameters of their music with respect to form, melody, harmony, rhythm, and texture. They broke down traditional techniques and incorporated previously unheard scales, harmonic progressions, and compositional structures. They also brought improvisation to new levels of intensity and complexity, taking greater liberties with respect to the duration, content, and structure of solos..." http://coltrane.room34.com/thesis
Coltrane, in particular, became attracted to modal approaches to soloing, and "sonic explorations". He utilized the harmonics of his instrument in producing "new" (previously undiscovered) sounds and overtones, and that would not have been possible, without him controlling his instrument (and not the other way around). To compare Boogsie to Coltrane, in my opinion, means not fully understanding his approaches to jazz improvisation, and in fact, almost every jazz soloist, would tell the aspiring jazz student, that to be a great improviser, "learn the melodies". Even, in Coltrane's solo on "Giant Steps", the melody can still be "heard" throughout, and he is NEVER lost in his playing. Again, the use of dynamics is also not sacrificed by those who truly understand jazz improv, because the use of dynamics is a part of the art of improvising.
Maybe, I have been more fortunate to have had opportunities to interact with jazz legends like Monty Alexander and the great James Moody, who "educated" me, on what jazz improv is, and what it isn't. And I am sure, and maybe Tello can back me up on this, that neither of them would consider Boogsie to be on par with John Coltrane (as far as "musical intellect" is concerned). Finally, please take a look and listen, to this animated sheet music of Giant Steps, and tell me if "set melody and chord structure" are really "ignored". Note, his use of pauses (let you notes "breathe", Boogsie) and how he still adheres to motif, development, and closing, in attempting to have his solo make "musical sense". A jazz solo, after all, is a conversation, not just the loud babbling of words, put together, that make no sense. (I would love to hear Boogsie on this; Tello ripped this joint!) Hope you all enjoy, and have a great weekend. (BTW- Do they still have the boat race? Go Solo!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kotK9FNEYU
GHOST.
Ghost...Please don't assume that I hold any brief for Boogsie, but I find you a little harsh on the great man...I distinctly Wynton Marsalis being in awe at Sharpe's prowess as an improvisor in 1986 when he (Marsalis) was in T&T to adjudicate Pan Is Beautiful IV. At any rate the comparison with Coltrane was just made in considering Boogsie's more avant garde approach to soloing over the last few years....which unfortunately can at times be very harsh on the ear...listen to the attached and tell me what you think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xtw75xic9U&feature=relmfu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbjgQUooqqM&feature=relmfu
bigmacttwi, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. Don't you find that you are being "a little harsh" on me? Just come out and tell me if Boogsie is "off-limits", because I feel that ALL "great" people deserve our scrutiny. My being a "fan" of anyone, makes me hold them up to higher ideals. (Please re-read ALL my comments.) Brother, the ONLY thing I "assume" about you, is that you are the same decent, talented, disciplined person, that you were as our captain, and leader of the tenor pan section in Merrytones. I honor our different views, and my critique of Boogsie's performance (not the person), is my own personal opinion. The thing that I try to do is, apply the knowledge I got from the music program at FMU, both from instructors and students alike.
This particular discussion attempted to compare the differences between jazz and ramajay improv styles, and agreed from the onset, that both use improvisation (spontaneity). None of us would claim that any American could possibly "know" our music - calypso, soca, chutney, a Panorama arrangement, etc. - better than us, and it would be equally naive to assume that we could possibly know jazz and jazz improvisation better than the ones who created it. Americans. African Americans in particular.
I listened to both clips; first off, again, you don't have to convince me of Boogsie's talent, and if one of these clips had been used instead of the one I saw, obviously, my comments would have been different. (Again, because I am responding to the material, not the man.) Having said, that, I would say that on, Doxy, LOVE the solo (that's what I'm talking about!), but I would have loved to hear him solo on more bars before going back to the head, and really develop and close his statement. Great motif on the intro, however, at the end, he could have closed with more drama, with some kind of dissonant play on notes. That is where "noise" could have worked perfectly. On the second clip, again nice job. Like the solo, especially when he was "singing" along.
Finally, if Marsalis was is such "awe" in 1986, why didn't he take Boogsie on tour with him, like Liberace did with Tripoli, or Jaco with Othello? In fact, Jaco was in such "awe", that for years, both he and Tello were inseparable. I would think that if Marsalis was that impressed, he, too, would have certainly grabbed at the opportunity to collaborate with Boogsie. Please share the clips of Marsalis and Boogsie working on stage together. I think that the instrument's capabilities are what really impressed this jazz legend, and I would like to hear his critique of Boogsie's playing on the "Boogsie The Greatest" video clip, as submitted by Spiceman. Or, have someone play the transcribed solo (EXACTLY as Boogsie played it on his pans), on a trumpet, and see if Mr. Wynton Marsalis would be as equally impressed.
GHOST.
An intriguing discussion Ghost - I can find no fault with your reasoning, perspective, evaluation, knowledge and ultimate conclusions on this subject.
However, I would like to add some details that may add another vantage point on the subject. Boogsie is a very complex person, moreover there is more than one Boogsie from an artistic and performance perspective.
Boogsie plays to the level of his surroundings. And that can be interpreted in different ways. That's a discussion for another time.
As an engineer for the late Max Roach, I've seen and worked with Boogsie in settings where he was just another good musician because of the high caliber of musicians who were on the stage with him. In these setting Boogsie was able to rise to the occasion and obtain the respect of legendary figures like Max Roach, Cecil Bridgewater, Odeon Pope and Tyron Brown to name a few (believe me very very few people on the planet can impress these guys). Unfortunately, few people from the Caribbean, if any, have ever seen or heard Boogsie in this arena.
Max Roach was very aware of my special interest in pan through our private conversations - additionally, I was also brought in for a special recording project Max wanted to do with Len "Boogsie" Sharpe. Max told me Boogsie had "Bird" like qualities. Max instructed me to record everything because as he said "you never knew when he would do something awesome". And yes Max was impressed enough with Boogsie to take him on the road with him and set up dates for him at the Village Gate. There is much more to this story, but that too is for another day.
I'm not sure Boogsie understood or appreciated at that time who Max was, what Max saw in him or what he, Max, was attempting to do - as Max call it the "passing of the baton".. That too is a story for another time.
The point is Len "Boogsie" Sharpe has or had the abilities and talent to walk with the great ones. If you listen to some of Boogsie's recordings like Fresh Pond - that to is a very very different person performing with very different sensitivities.
Pan Times
Thanks, Pan Times for your informative post. I would love to hear those recordings! Again, I am a BIG FAN of Len Boogsie Sharpe, and that is why I was as critical of the video, as I was. I simply did not feel it represented him in the best "musical" context, and I still feel that way. Thanks for appreciating the fact that I put thought into my comments, and attempted to be unbiased and openly honest in my statements, as I always do. Again, the day that we all agree, is the day that I become worried about the direction and future of pan and the steelband movement. Please keep in mind, my comments are as a "student" of jazz improvisation, and not as some genius, which I am not. I simply like to speak my mind, and even students have their own thoughts. Thanks again,
GHOST
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