As a young pannist/musician/artist having an organization that looks out for the needs of the PLAYERS within the {TNT} steelpan community and movement (and by extension Regional and International) is very important in my opinion. It has been my observation over the last few years after being around and experiencing varying situations that there is very little geared towards ensuring the Fair treatment of each player as an Individual and not just as a member of a Band and or Orchestra. Which lead to this thought: why isn't there some sort of Union organization to adhere to such?
I would like to hear peoples' thoughts on this Topic....
Replies
Well Mr. Pant'um-The Ghost who Talks,
Thank you for your acknowledging of Education as a major part of the equation and we do need people like you who will also have the mantle of "Doc" -..... 'head in the sky but feet firmly planted on the ground'. Education opens the doors to everything, sadly the majority of the Pan people of the early generation suffered from lack of education and were discriminated against. Yet they still persevered, this shows the strength and verve in Pan people. In today's world however we need to pursue the higher education because that is when the true change will come about when we put the same Pan people with verve but now educated to lead us. I call on the younger generation to go for it ...but for us older guys it still is never too late to upgrade.
Mr. Pant'um-The Ghost who Talks, I also share your views on the Union issue and do believe Pan Trinbago should remain a non-profit organization for the same reasons outlined in your post. However there are certain models around the world that can be emulated with success.. For instance the renowned "Montreal International Jazz Festival" is for all practical purposes a Non- Profit Organization ( It makes a profit of over 400 million Canadain dollars annually ...maybe more) However it still receives funding from the different levels of government , Federal, Provincial, and Municipal, but more importantly it receives corporate funding which is much more than the government funding. It can only receive this funding because it is a Non-Profit Organization..however it has established a "For profit organization" as part of its business endeavors. This is what actually runs the business entrepreneurship of promotions, marketing, sales ..etc....
So this is one concept of operation that I would love to see Pan Trinbago adopt. As a Non -Profit Organization , Pan Trinbago is entitled to the T&T governments annual bursary, but they have not developed the mechanism to attract other corporate sponsors, nor have they developed the means to become more productive from a 'For-profit business' point of view,,,so when Pan men are calling for business people to get involve in Pan Trinbago they are rightly calling for this type of action. It all comes back to EDUCATION. Hopefully in the near future we will have Doctors, Lawyers successful business people who are also die heart Pan people.
Here in Montreal our organization the "Montreal International Steelpan Festival" is trying to emulate the Montreal International Jazz Festival ...something that works. unfortunately we have a lot of the cards stacked against us . especially a language barrier, but we do have the verve of Pan people and we will also persevere ...so stay tuned for us as we embark upon our own development. I strongly believe that some Pan business somewhere in the world has to work and become successful so that it too can be a model for the rest.
Keep up the discussion WST.
Salah
Unions are good in a small band situation where you can charge a fee for a five or seven piece steel band for a minimum of three hours per session. There the band will have a price depends how large or small the band may be. The the band leader should about $50 or $100. above the band member for organizing and the control of get paid on behalf of the members.
Depends of what the market could afford just as an example at $50 per hour the minimum wage should be $150 for three hours or less.Therefore a five piece band should be paid $750.00 plus $50 for the band leader. There the full price for the should be $800.00 for a three hours session. I do not not know what is the going price now in Trinidad but this is just an example of payment. The big band could charge something different according the market will pay for a big band. Travelling expense should be included if a band is playing out of Town
This is just a guidance of how a band should operate. Just an idea from Tripoli Scratcher man that now lives in Australia Courtney Leiba
It is never too late to educate or go back to school ...but it is of course better to get the education while you are young so that you can use it through out your life and thereby make a substantial contribution to society...so go for it
Salah
Thanks!! The vote of confidence even from a distance is comforting esp since it's more than I can say for others in and around. I hope I'll be an inspiration to others coming after me just as you were and still are. ;-)
xoxo Kris
Hi All,
Greetings ..nice discussion, I have read all the wonderful inputs to get up to date and may have my two cents to add.
. This is one of the great things with a Forum like this ... Ideas are generated and everyone can contribute. Thanks to WST..I know that we can all get emotional on this forum and sometimes we might say things and then it could be interpreted in another way...nevertheless this forum is also here to clear up amongst other things any misunderstandings. ( good to see Foy and Cindy on the same page working for the same progress in Pan ) Pan people are a rare breed of people... we all care about the Pan and this WST forum is one vehicle that can take us to all places.
My brother Foy, I was not on a Sabbatical but rather very busy for the last two weeks doing of course some Pan Business. I am going to say what it is so that maybe it might help and inspire especially the younger generation and maybe some older heads like us.
I was busy writing out some music scores but more importantly preparing some admission papers ... I AM GOING BACK TO SCHOOL....My intentions are to complete a Masters degree in Ethnomusicology and continue for another three years aiming for a Doctorate...Yes brothers and sisters. To solve some of the problems as discussed in this Forum on this topic we need to have apart from the love and devotions to this Pan and this movement. We need educated people in all areas.... in Business, Law, Literacy, Marketing, Promotions etc....
So I am saying especially to the younger generations like Kris Kris ..It is never too late to upgrade. We need educated people to lead us not just people who love Pan or people who have the passion for Pan ..we need these dedicated people but we also need them Educated. As some one mentioned before,.... we changed the leadership of Pan Trinbago but what did we put in place.
Listen, every community and organizations have their problems but the successful ones are the ones who put their best to lead them....best in terms of Education, competence, sincerity, honesty and dedication... unfortunately we put our friends to lead us in return for favours whether the friends are competent or not. This is the formula for stagnation. I encourage the Pan people ( especially the younger ones) to upgrade and further their education to achieve doctorates, in all aspects. We will need these types of expertise to produce the suggestions mentioned in this Forum.
Foy, I also want to suggest that all of us may not be able to gather in one place at a certain time...but in today's technological world.We can still communicate by the available means of audio/video transmissions etc...
There is always more to say but for now the contribution is Education ...go and get it.
Salah
Bing ! Bing! Bing! Salah, thank you soooo much, for pointing to the importance of education. That is why I decided to go for my bachelors. I also plan on going on for my masters, and (God's willing) my Ph D. I support you 100%, and look forward to the day that we can address you as "Doc". Kris, I also applaud you, and, as a graduate of a school of "higher learning", I can testify that the experience will benefit you tremendously! Keep your head to the sky, while your heart remains grounded (humble).
As to the "union" debate, I am not sure if everyone understands the importance of unions, their benefits or functions. There are full philharmonic orchestras that are members of the AFM (American Federation Of Musicians), as well as almost every famous and successful musician in the US, including Quincy Jones and Stevie Wonder. In the NBA, you have millionaires like Kobe Bryant and Labron James, who are represented members of their players' union. All these rich and famous people can afford the most expensive legal representation, accountant. or any other business professional. Why, then, are they members of unions? Incidentally, one of the ideas proposed by George "Sonny" Goddard, was affiliation of the steelband union (the Steelband Association, then NATTS) with the AFM. The issue with many of the ideas that are being presented, is that they fail to understand that a for-profit business answers to shareholders, whereas, unions represent and protect workers. The answer does not lie in Pan Trinbago running as a for-profit business; rather running as a bonafide non-profit union. Surely, the answers to an NBA player's concerns, are not going to be addressed by their players union running like the NBA. The NBA, to the unionised player, is, for all intent and purposes, is the enemy or opposing side. The NBA answers to its profit-seeking shareholder. The union represents these millionaires, again, all of whom can afford their own professionals.
In reality, Pan Trinbago would be a redundant service to me, as I am also a member of the AFM. Professionally, because I have a degree, I have options outside of music. Personally, however, I will continue to defend the efforts of the pioneers of the "steelband movement"; efforts omitted, forgotten, unappreciated, and disrespected by many today, who fail to see how they (themselves) are the very beneficiaries of those efforts of yore. In keeping with that effort, I encourage EVERYONE to do their research before jumping to conclusions and criticisms of our (panists') unions, based on propaganda, that was, essentially, deliberate and politically-motivated.
Yours In Pan,
George D. Goddard, B.A. Cum Laude.
PANT'UM - THE GHOST WHO TALKS! Honoring the Legacy of George "Sonny" Goddard.
Wow you're really going back to school, that's inspiring. I'm currently doing my Bachelor's so I am getting that education which you speak of and hoping God spares me enough Life to make it all the way to PHD one day. A lot of hard work yup.... I wish you the best of health, strength, time and Patience to finish pursue that Doctorate. p.s. it's so true what you mentioned about putting your friends in positions of leadership (it's just all for personal gain) rather than uplifting an organization.
"Common sense can only get you so far."
Kris xoxo
How are you doing today? I hope all is well in your world.
Do you have any ideas to help in this dilemma? We would like
To change the status of the ENTERNAINERS in the steelband
Community and your input would most certainly be appreciated.
Have a wonderful evening and weekend. Thank you ever so
Much. ***Cindy***
Hi Foy,
My computer is on vacation. I tried reading these messages on a blackberry, but the darn thing is too small. I am in the Library catching up on what I missed. Do you have a goal in mind for the meeting? I was thinking along the lines of: the goal is to have "the steelband nationally and internationally a flourishing, and prosperous success." We have to think in terms of it being a business, and we have to think big. The steelbands need business managers, and lawyers. I have no idea how they operate. The players have to have a better view of themselves. They have to start pulling themselves up. And most important of all, their ATTITUDES have to undergo some serious changes. The mentality is "who do you think you are?" And we know more than you do. If they are not willing to accept criticism, or whatever it takes to get things done, then you will have to whistle another tune. The Library is about to close. This is all for now. Have a good night. ***Cindy***
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