It has been advised by someone a little wiser that me, never judge panorama from the prelims, but I must say what I've heard so far is truly astounding. This is pan competition in the 21st century. Musicology, phraseology, showmanship, and interpretation is the winning attribute to this cultural competitive extravaganza 2011. I wish that politics and curry-favouritism stay clear from this year's panorama adjudication.
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I agree with you completely and I hope when the judging is done on that basis even if we do not approve of the winner that "bleeps " do not attack by saying that Gypo Gypsy was correcrt in saying that Panorama is killing Pan.
Just a reminder that bands get penalised for going over time on their tune eight min is self explanotry and we have to take that into consideration. Hopefully now that Skiffle Bunch is out politics can now leave the Panorama. Even though the pannisists are not to be penalised for their manager/leader affiliations
Greetings to the WST community - Please Upload and post on the forum
Here is the link to PowerStars preliminaries performance that earned us the 5th place for a spot into the National Panorama Semi-Finals on Sunday. Check it out.
FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE - TRANSMITTED ON FRIDAY FEBRUARY 18, 2011
Power Stars Steel Orchestra
114 Western Main Road
St. James,
Trinidad & Tobago
West Indies
February 18, 2011
Mr. Keith Diaz, Mr. Douglas Williams
President, PAN TRINBAGO; Chairman, North Region PAN TRINBAGO
Park St, Port-of-Spain; 45 Jerningham Avenue, Belmont
RE: OFFICAL LETTER OF COMPLAINT REGARDING THE CONSISTENCY IN THE JUDGING IN THE MEDIUM CATEGORY
Dear Sirs,
In accordance with section 16, sub-section 16.2 of the Rules and Regulations of the Panorama 2011, that being-:
“Where the Rules are Silent – On any matter in relation to the competition in respect of which these rules are silent, the Panorama Management Committee shall have the power to make decisions thereon and any decision of the Panorama Management Committee made in those circumstances shall be final and binding on all parties.”
Under this jurisdiction, with the unanimous approval of the Board of Management, the appointed Arranger of Power Stars Steel Orchestra, and by the powers invested in me as the Chairman/Manager, I wish to file an official letter of complaint and state on record, that the alternate judge for the medium category of the North Zone Panorama competition preliminaries, Ms. Joanne Ragbir, not be included as a member of any judging panel with any category within this competition, until such time, as the individual is trained to overcome the idiosyncrasies of her assessment in the judging criteria, in relation to that of, the assessments of the rest of the distinguished judging panel.
Reviewing results in the same category from other orchestras will reveal similar findings with this particular individual.
I trust that this correspondence which is made without prejudice will be taken in the vein that we have accepted our results in accordance with the rules of the competition. We trust that reason and good wisdom will prevail, and the correct course of action will be taken.
Thanking you in advance for your kind assistance and service.
Respectfully,
Gregory Lindsay
Manager/Delegate
Power Stars Steel Orchestra
868.739.1387
cc. Mr. John Harris - Secretary, Power Stars Steel Orchestra
WST Forum
Gregory Lindsay > Gregory LindsayFebruary 19, 2011 at 9:17pm
FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE - PLEASE POST
WHO IS GOING TO BELL THE CAT!!!!!
Greetings to the WST forum,
Despite the incongruent comments made by Mr. BigMacttwi on this topic, please allow me to say this, that Mr. BigMacttwi is allowed to have his opinion, as far out of his depth that he is, no disrespect intended..
Dr. Jeanine Remy in her post on this discussion understands precisely what is the scenario that can play out tommorrow in the Medium Category...and Dr. Remy is a distinguished judge in the National Single Pan Category next week. Go figure, that the said Tobago judge could easily pull a number as a seated judge in the Semi-Final or Final Round in the Medium Category is a fact that no amount of sweeping this matter under the rug can repudiate. This is a stand on principle based on facts as presented by the points for all Medium Bands from the Preliminary round. It is a trend analysis of the facts, taking Mr. Ian Jones' comments into review.. This is not about PowerStars coming 5th nationally and complaining, it is about an anomaly that currently exists in the judging assessment of Ms. Joanne Ragbir, a judge in the Medium category. And I might add that if it is not rectified as alluded to, in my official letter of complaint, then all bands playing in the Medium Category at the National Semi-Final round stand to be affected, PowerStars included.
My band is batting in its crease on this principled matter, as this is the only time within the Panorama competition, that any concerns in writing with respect to judges assessments can legitimately be raised without prejudice, as after the round concludes, according to the rules of the competition, the judges decision is final.
Most people have a lot to say to the governing body, when the results come out about the judges, about PanTrinbago , who in and happy, and who out and crying in their milk. Let us sideline that sea of emotion.
When I sent our letter of complaint off on Friday, I made sure to follow the proper protocols of precedence, as well as to ensure on the copies of correspondence to President Diaz and Chairman Williams to indicate that copies would be lodged with my band's secretary and on the WST forum. It is not my band's fault that they did not take our letter seriously and act in a prudent manner to alight this issue.
I also made sure to speak with both individuals personally before posting on our press release on the WST forum, so as to ensure that in no way at all, that our posting on this forum would be construed that my orchestra in any way, attempted to bring the organization (PanTrinbago or the Panorama Management Committee) into any level of disrepute. Simply put, transparency and integrity must be at the heart of this urgent matter, and this technology allows for that.
The amount of traffic on this discussion forum on this matter prompted President Diaz (with whom I have a very high regard and respect for and share an excellent relationship with, along with all executive and regional officers) to call me this evening at 1932 hours and abruptly inform me that I did not need to inform this forum of this impending imbroglio and that PowerStars are needlessly stirring up a hornet's nest with this issue on this forum. President Diaz also alluded to the fact that finding judges to judge the competition seems to be in short supply.
We received a copy (today Saturday 02/19/2011) of subsequent correspondence from Mr. Richard Forteau, Secretary, Central Executive dated Friday February 18, 2011 articulating in a memorandum to all Regional Chairmen, that Ms. Joslynne Sealy (N) is to replace Mrs. Merle Albino De Coteau (who is unable to judge in the Medium Conventional Category), The correspondence also indicated that Mr. Tommy Crichlow has been selected to adjucate in the Small Conventional Category to replace Ms. Joslynne Sealy.
Mr. Forteau has confirmed via correspondence and telephone conversation at 1939 hours on Saturday February 19, 2011 that the following is the revised listing of judges for the Medium Category in the Semi-Finals and Finals of Panorama 2011-;
Joslynne Sealy (N)
Ezra Joseph (N)
Jeanette Johnson (E)
Cuthbert Matthews (S)
Lorna Conyette (S)
Joanne Ragbir (T)
I will be hoping and praying to my God as always confidently, that the collective wisdom of the powers that be will prevail and the correct course of action will be taken to the benefit of all bands participating in the Medium Category.
Thanks for your support, enjoy our music and good luck to all.
Respectfully,
Gregory M. Lindsay
Manager - Power Stars Steel Orchestra
Herman Samuels > Gregory LindsayFebruary 20, 2011 at 9:26pm
If they are throwing out the highest and lowest scores it may not count very much.However the disparity is disturbing.What is the criteria for being a judge?
Thank You Gregory !! Well done to a brave and fearless soldier.Don't worry, I've been praying too for our music to be raised to a higher depth.As a matter of fact the whole world is praying.Relatives all over.When you good you good, no one can touch us.
bigmacttwi > Gregory LindsayFebruary 20, 2011 at 1:16am
" I trust that this correspondence which is made without prejudice will be taken in the vein that we have accepted our results in accordance with the rules of the competition."...
Your words Mr Lindsay...so if you "accepted" the results ...then what really is the problem?...why are you asking for the judge to be removed?
Over my many years as a performer in Panorama and even now as an arranger, I have never once cried foul over judging, even if I felt my band deserved better. What puzzles me is that the judge in question was alternate in this sitting and if I understand it correctly her poinst didn't matter anyway. Can you explain further?...Many thanks
My understanding of the matter is that Mr. Lindsay believes that her judging was unfair and that she may not be the most qualified (in terms of understanding the criteria) person for the job. He is not saying "we could have done better, allyuh tief we!" He is, instead, saying "we recognise and accept the results, but we believe that an improvement can be made for semifinals in the judge selection."
I see nothing wrong with this... in fact, I think it's a great thing that the 5th place band did it because if it was someone who didn't make it, it would sound like "allyuh just doh like we." As it's not only a band that made it to semis, but a band that did well, it looks to me more like a simple question regarding Ms. Ragbir's qualifications and judging skill.
Please note that Power Stars is not crying foul here, but rather simply expressing concern.
BTW. I'm not a Power Stars player and am not in any way affiliated with them. I am just someone who has had consistent concerns with the method of judging and judge selection over the years that I have played panorama. I am therefore glad to see an official communiqué from a band that has nothing to gain (and has lost nothing) about this matter.
Val Serrant > Gregory LindsayFebruary 20, 2011 at 12:41am
Sat-Nam(I salute the Truth in you)Mr Lindsay.I am External Relations Officer for Parry's Pan School,which has been vindictively awarded low points by a Judge, Especially after we filed a complaint with PanTrinbago requesting her removal,since she had INCOMPETENTLY(to put it mildly)stated in her Judge's comments(2008)that one of our '4-Pans' was out of tune,when we have NEVER used any 4-Pans/ Quadrophonics in our Band! Selwyn 'Parry' Paul/Founder/ Tutor/Arranger,was also discouraged from pressing the matter,but having gone through the same low-scoring scene this year,he will be filing an 'official' complaint on behalf of the Band.Stand Firm Mr Lindsay,the 'sweep under the rug' days are Definitely over! **ALSO..IT IS RIDICULOUS for PanTrinbago to have stopped 'Judging in the Panyards',have our Band(PPS)for example,get to Arima by 7pm(the appointed time for the start of the Program,which began some 2 hours late)then have to perform TWO(2) O'clock Next Morning!?!!Spare our Youth this Un-necessary Torture! It IS Wake-Up Time! ASE!
Naresh John > Gregory LindsayFebruary 19, 2011 at 6:14pm
this is absolutely true......in single pan this is the case with a particular judge
she gives east bands high marks as she has ties wit the arranger...and over the years north bands, especially a particular band gets harshly judged.....80+ scores from judge #1 and 2 but 76 from her
PanTrinbago needs to examine this and put only qualified and judges with no ties whether familial or social to judge in these competition...it is just not fair to bands
Replies
I agree with you completely and I hope when the judging is done on that basis even if we do not approve of the winner that "bleeps " do not attack by saying that Gypo Gypsy was correcrt in saying that Panorama is killing Pan.
Just a reminder that bands get penalised for going over time on their tune eight min is self explanotry and we have to take that into consideration. Hopefully now that Skiffle Bunch is out politics can now leave the Panorama. Even though the pannisists are not to be penalised for their manager/leader affiliations
Greetings to the WST community - Please Upload and post on the forum
Here is the link to PowerStars preliminaries performance that earned us the 5th place for a spot into the National Panorama Semi-Finals on Sunday. Check it out.
http://www.box.net/shared/i9zuqetony
FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE - TRANSMITTED ON FRIDAY FEBRUARY 18, 2011
Power Stars Steel Orchestra
114 Western Main Road
St. James,
Trinidad & Tobago
West Indies
February 18, 2011
Mr. Keith Diaz, Mr. Douglas Williams
President, PAN TRINBAGO; Chairman, North Region PAN TRINBAGO
Park St, Port-of-Spain; 45 Jerningham Avenue, Belmont
RE: OFFICAL LETTER OF COMPLAINT REGARDING THE CONSISTENCY IN THE JUDGING IN THE MEDIUM CATEGORY
Dear Sirs,
In accordance with section 16, sub-section 16.2 of the Rules and Regulations of the Panorama 2011, that being-:
“Where the Rules are Silent – On any matter in relation to the competition in respect of which these rules are silent, the Panorama Management Committee shall have the power to make decisions thereon and any decision of the Panorama Management Committee made in those circumstances shall be final and binding on all parties.”
Under this jurisdiction, with the unanimous approval of the Board of Management, the appointed Arranger of Power Stars Steel Orchestra, and by the powers invested in me as the Chairman/Manager, I wish to file an official letter of complaint and state on record, that the alternate judge for the medium category of the North Zone Panorama competition preliminaries, Ms. Joanne Ragbir, not be included as a member of any judging panel with any category within this competition, until such time, as the individual is trained to overcome the idiosyncrasies of her assessment in the judging criteria, in relation to that of, the assessments of the rest of the distinguished judging panel.
Reviewing results in the same category from other orchestras will reveal similar findings with this particular individual.
I trust that this correspondence which is made without prejudice will be taken in the vein that we have accepted our results in accordance with the rules of the competition. We trust that reason and good wisdom will prevail, and the correct course of action will be taken.
Thanking you in advance for your kind assistance and service.
Respectfully,
Gregory Lindsay
Manager/Delegate
Power Stars Steel Orchestra
868.739.1387
cc. Mr. John Harris - Secretary, Power Stars Steel Orchestra
WST Forum
FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE - PLEASE POST
WHO IS GOING TO BELL THE CAT!!!!!
Greetings to the WST forum,
Despite the incongruent comments made by Mr. BigMacttwi on this topic, please allow me to say this, that Mr. BigMacttwi is allowed to have his opinion, as far out of his depth that he is, no disrespect intended..
Dr. Jeanine Remy in her post on this discussion understands precisely what is the scenario that can play out tommorrow in the Medium Category...and Dr. Remy is a distinguished judge in the National Single Pan Category next week. Go figure, that the said Tobago judge could easily pull a number as a seated judge in the Semi-Final or Final Round in the Medium Category is a fact that no amount of sweeping this matter under the rug can repudiate. This is a stand on principle based on facts as presented by the points for all Medium Bands from the Preliminary round. It is a trend analysis of the facts, taking Mr. Ian Jones' comments into review.. This is not about PowerStars coming 5th nationally and complaining, it is about an anomaly that currently exists in the judging assessment of Ms. Joanne Ragbir, a judge in the Medium category. And I might add that if it is not rectified as alluded to, in my official letter of complaint, then all bands playing in the Medium Category at the National Semi-Final round stand to be affected, PowerStars included.
My band is batting in its crease on this principled matter, as this is the only time within the Panorama competition, that any concerns in writing with respect to judges assessments can legitimately be raised without prejudice, as after the round concludes, according to the rules of the competition, the judges decision is final.
Most people have a lot to say to the governing body, when the results come out about the judges, about PanTrinbago , who in and happy, and who out and crying in their milk. Let us sideline that sea of emotion.
When I sent our letter of complaint off on Friday, I made sure to follow the proper protocols of precedence, as well as to ensure on the copies of correspondence to President Diaz and Chairman Williams to indicate that copies would be lodged with my band's secretary and on the WST forum. It is not my band's fault that they did not take our letter seriously and act in a prudent manner to alight this issue.
I also made sure to speak with both individuals personally before posting on our press release on the WST forum, so as to ensure that in no way at all, that our posting on this forum would be construed that my orchestra in any way, attempted to bring the organization (PanTrinbago or the Panorama Management Committee) into any level of disrepute. Simply put, transparency and integrity must be at the heart of this urgent matter, and this technology allows for that.
The amount of traffic on this discussion forum on this matter prompted President Diaz (with whom I have a very high regard and respect for and share an excellent relationship with, along with all executive and regional officers) to call me this evening at 1932 hours and abruptly inform me that I did not need to inform this forum of this impending imbroglio and that PowerStars are needlessly stirring up a hornet's nest with this issue on this forum. President Diaz also alluded to the fact that finding judges to judge the competition seems to be in short supply.
We received a copy (today Saturday 02/19/2011) of subsequent correspondence from Mr. Richard Forteau, Secretary, Central Executive dated Friday February 18, 2011 articulating in a memorandum to all Regional Chairmen, that Ms. Joslynne Sealy (N) is to replace Mrs. Merle Albino De Coteau (who is unable to judge in the Medium Conventional Category), The correspondence also indicated that Mr. Tommy Crichlow has been selected to adjucate in the Small Conventional Category to replace Ms. Joslynne Sealy.
Mr. Forteau has confirmed via correspondence and telephone conversation at 1939 hours on Saturday February 19, 2011 that the following is the revised listing of judges for the Medium Category in the Semi-Finals and Finals of Panorama 2011-;
I will be hoping and praying to my God as always confidently, that the collective wisdom of the powers that be will prevail and the correct course of action will be taken to the benefit of all bands participating in the Medium Category.
Thanks for your support, enjoy our music and good luck to all.
Respectfully,
Gregory M. Lindsay
Manager - Power Stars Steel Orchestra
" I trust that this correspondence which is made without prejudice will be taken in the vein that we have accepted our results in accordance with the rules of the competition."...
Your words Mr Lindsay...so if you "accepted" the results ...then what really is the problem?...why are you asking for the judge to be removed?
Over my many years as a performer in Panorama and even now as an arranger, I have never once cried foul over judging, even if I felt my band deserved better. What puzzles me is that the judge in question was alternate in this sitting and if I understand it correctly her poinst didn't matter anyway. Can you explain further?...Many thanks
My understanding of the matter is that Mr. Lindsay believes that her judging was unfair and that she may not be the most qualified (in terms of understanding the criteria) person for the job. He is not saying "we could have done better, allyuh tief we!" He is, instead, saying "we recognise and accept the results, but we believe that an improvement can be made for semifinals in the judge selection."
I see nothing wrong with this... in fact, I think it's a great thing that the 5th place band did it because if it was someone who didn't make it, it would sound like "allyuh just doh like we." As it's not only a band that made it to semis, but a band that did well, it looks to me more like a simple question regarding Ms. Ragbir's qualifications and judging skill.
Please note that Power Stars is not crying foul here, but rather simply expressing concern.
BTW. I'm not a Power Stars player and am not in any way affiliated with them. I am just someone who has had consistent concerns with the method of judging and judge selection over the years that I have played panorama. I am therefore glad to see an official communiqué from a band that has nothing to gain (and has lost nothing) about this matter.
this is absolutely true......in single pan this is the case with a particular judge
she gives east bands high marks as she has ties wit the arranger...and over the years north bands, especially a particular band gets harshly judged.....80+ scores from judge #1 and 2 but 76 from her
PanTrinbago needs to examine this and put only qualified and judges with no ties whether familial or social to judge in these competition...it is just not fair to bands
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