WHAT WENT WRONG?

[Cecil hinkson]

When steelbands were run by "badjohns" they ruled town, pan men got paid 15$-20$ and they were happy.

Come 2014 the badjohns are replaced with educated people, now they want to kick steelband off the road, people don't want to pay them, they seem helpless.

[Noel]

Cecil

I am a little disappointed at this post. The kind of generalizations it makes and the implications of the main point you are making cannot lead to any positive discussion and forward movement. 

You are generally much better than this!

Come on!

First "When steelbands were run by badjohns"

When exactly was this era?

Are you going back to the era of the 1940s to early 1950s? If so, how valid is the argument ? Can you say that in this era  panmen got paid . .  and were happy." Is this a veifiable fact? 

If you are talking about the next 'golden' era of the late 50s and 60s, I want to ask you: Which 'badjohn' RAN All Stars? Which ran Starlift? North Stars? Silver Stars? Dem Fortunates? Sputnik? Kintups? Ebonites? Synco? Symphonettes? etc etc etc? 

Some of the leaders of some of these bands were tough guys. You had to be, to lead men in those days, but were they 'bad johns'?

But most importantly, the swipe you make at 'educated people' is a backward move. it suggests that if uneducated people ran the movement we would all be better off. Wonder how Holman feels when you say that!

The problem has nothing to do with whether people are educated or not, I believe. It has to be with whether these people are good organizers, have good business sense and have a view of the pan movement that would lead them to make decisions that benefit the movement.

And most of all, it has to do with whether they are honest. And, my brother, that quality is not the domain of any one type of person!

[Cecil hinkson]

Noel,

I see that you did understand where I wanted to go with this post, if you don't like my use of the words "badjohn and educated" what can I tell you?

Others understood the point I wanted to make and responded and that"s good enough for me, you win some and yuh loose some.

[Noel]

Cecil,

It is not the words that I 'did not like', it is the overall message and its direction. I respect you and think that you, among some others on WST, have a potentially important role to play in the growth of our national instrument. In forums like these people share ideas and enlighten each other so that  a strong movement can emerge which will ensure the growth and development of this aspect of our heritage.

I genuinely believe that your analysis of the situation that existed was too simplistic. I also believe that what you say is dangerous because some people might feel that you are saying that the problem is with 'educated people' I am sure that this is not what you meant to say, but your comment lends itself to that interpretation.

I wanted to contribute to the discussion by ensuring that this was clearly not the case. I also wanted to carry it forward by suggesting that what we need in the leadership of the pan movement (PT?) were people with specific skills (and who were honest). I feel if we were to agree with that, some suggestions might come up as to ways in which this can be achieved.

[Cecil hinkson]

Noel,

You did contribute to the discussion.

[patrick]

Noel I agree with you on this one, great response, the only difference, I am very disappointed with this post by Cecil Hinkson and also the heard of bloggers who just continues to spew the crap all over. Ray Holman, a disciplinarian throughout his days at Starlift, and many others, as an example, can't be proud of this badjohn image. When I hear the word badjohn, the image is bad men who pelt bottle and buss man head, cut man up seriously while playing mas with cutlass, damage steeldrums etc. I don't believe Ray Holman was this, unless Cecil Hinkson have some files hidden.

[Peter Gray]

Cecil:

Is true ... but in every organisation or movement, discipline is an essential component of success.  Pan is not excluded from that criterion.  So even given all the legitimate social issues hindering pan's continued prominence in carnival, in carnival parties, etc., the (unfortunate?) truth of the matter is that people respect an image of brute force rather than the image of "educated people".  Don't ask me why.

Peter

[Cecil hinkson]

Peter,

I hear what you are saying because we can see that the passion the older generation had for pan/steelband is not there anymore.

Today I find our intellectuals are more interested in the History of the pan/steelband rather than proposing ways to make the steelband self sufficient.

[Bugs]

Let's be brutally honest.

• From a Trinidad and Tobago perspective the wrong type and class of people invented pan. The educated are more annoyed than proud that pan as invented Trinidad. If pan was invented in Italy there would be cathedrals named after the steelpan greats. If pan was invented in America there would be university halls and concert pavilions named after the pan greats. If pan was invented in Europe there would be streets named after them. In Trinidad they want to remove pan from their festivals and look upon it with scorn.
• The leaders of most of the Pan Trinbago administrations could not get another job doing what they do anywhere else. They stink at what they do. The Greens, The Pool, what's the next embarrassment.
• There is a tremendous lost of talent, goodwill and productivity from the young people because of the incompetence of Pan Trinbago and the band leaders.

bugs

[Peter Gray]

Big up, Bugs!

You hit several nails on the head ... is we own self embarrament/shame why there are no streets names after Bertie Marshall, Clive Bradley, Ray Holman, Spree Simon, etc., etc.

This is part and parcel of always looking outside for validation (as I have said before on this forum).

Peter

[Cecil hinkson]

In the Mecca they don't know what to do with the pan/steelband and they don't want to hear what should be done with it. What Bugs spoke about is that 3rd world mentality which is responsible for stagnation of the steelband.