You need to be a member of When Steel Talks to add comments!

Join When Steel Talks


  • Under all the ole talk does anyone have the groove version of Robbie's masterpiece arrangement of Hammertime this year 21013 to share. PLEASE SHARE this orgasmic experience......will be greatly appreciated.....much thanks.

  • Sid boy the blag cyar done, I just listen to a slow version of melody mas by cavaliers, I heard the steel on wheels video, the year it came out, I heard Pamberi, version only twice in the prelims and a few times final night, yet after all them decades from the time I listen to the tune, a lot of the arrangements came back to me,I miss the nostalgic nice lil runs not chromaitcs, the lil passages you used to hear not too long ago in panorama, that most people could remember and hum or mouth note for note without being members of the bands or even living near them, from the early 2000's go back, I could mouth parts, I know, the arrangements though they ok they have gotten too abstract    

  • se,

    i say yuh dun de blag...

    rubadiri victor has some important insights on the culture, and the tension between preservation and evolution; see his recent articles in the express.

    nothing ever stays the same, and change is to be expected, even embraced. but no culture should embrace change to the extent of committing hara kiri. i like the culinary way you put it... not every good t'ing good for every t'ing... and the same applies to the rama.

    even so, the judges have the power to guide change, by rewarding "good" change, and penalizing "bad" change. yes, judgements must be made, and cannot be avoided. so sensitivity and a deep understanding of culture is required to address the questions raised up.

    speaking for myself,  i would like to see the music hark back to its roots in the street, including possibly by bringing the engine room more up front in some arrangements, and in any case emphasizing the chip-chip cadence of road music. that's what i liked about harmonites this year, but the judges had other ideas, obviously.

    can arrangers with the skill of boogsie, smooth, and others take us back to the street origins of the steelband, without appearing to abandon the musical sophistication that is now evident? in some ways calypsociation may be exploring that direction, but in a supper-club jazzy kind of way. it is certainly a direction that andy could go in, he has the ability. but would it work in the big yard?

    - big sid

  • sid i ent complaining too much bout the rama, this year previous years they would put something strange out of the blue and it was more like salt in the coffee,pepper in the juice,molases in the curry,curry in the ice cream oh geed lol like they went by sylvia hunt this year, and somebody tell Andy even if he try to do breakfast at dinner, Trinis doh do bacon and eggs often and no grits or pancakes, is fry bake and saltfish or smoke herring, the indians do sadu roti and tomato choka, no grits no hash browns cornbeef and johnny or coconut bake,andy ought to know that he had some of that when we played in Exodus, and don't get tie up with Andy he know the trini twang, it would be interesting to hear him, in that vein

  • se,

    i think i see what u r talking about re the despers bass "lik" in boogsie's piece. i think i picked up the recycling u talked about also in invader's piece, from despers last year arrangement. i guess it is to be expected that arrangers, not necessarily consciously, will lift ideas from each other. for example, when smooth did the tassa ornamentals in curry tabanca, that was a hit. now many bands go out of their way to throw tassa into the mix, like black pepper into a salad. renegades did it this year. it was ... well... okay. not enough imo to add substantively to the arrangement, and barely enough to serve as spice. just barely, it fit the theme of shock attack. other arrangers seem to just randomly throw in some tassa, almost like a cook "trying a t'ing" with a spice they're not used to working with. like any good spice, it may be overdone, like too much bay leaf in a stew. same with the classical ending. everybody and his tantie doing it, sometimes for no good reason other than everybody knows it's a way to say "the end" with dramatic flair. i remember it working for boogsie as far back as '92 with "jam meh up", but it was integral to the piece and what it was trying to convey, namely a climax, in more than one sense of that term; see there is still a place for such endings. but often it's thrown in when the arranger has no better clue as to how to end. boogsie is never at such a loss. his problem is to be selective ...he has so many ideas...and usually he finds tasteful and thoughtful solutions. he is the master of musicality. as i write this, i'm listening now to exodus, and i'm reminded that pelham is a master of the middle parts of an arrangement, but his introductions and endings tend somewhat to the abrupt. this year with gold, he could recycle the olympic theme, which worked because it was on point, and saved him the trouble of crafting his own introduction. as i mentioned in a previous post, the panorama art form, in its tie-in with the PoS carnival, is now fully grown and mature. so we can expect recycling of riffs, liks, and other musical parts, lifted from here, there and everywhere. the trick for the creative arranger would be to rearrange the familiar into new arrangements that either appeal to musical intellect, or excite ecstatic response. the alternative is to stretch the boundaries of the genre, and in that way find new musical territory to explore. i welcome such stretching of boundaries for pan, but not for the carnival-related panorama. for example, i like a lot of what calypsociation is doing, such as this has to represent a direction of creative ferment in paris and europe: supper-club steelband jazz... there is a lot there for someone like andy narell to explore in that boundary area between jazz and calypso, and between a carnival art and a concert hall art. in fact, within the boundaries of the panorama as carnival art, there is already tension between the original street art of ecstatic music, and the stage art which represents an abstraction of that street art that is still however tied to the street through "spirit of carnival" as a necessary element. what i would like arrangers to do is veer back toward the art's street roots. many of the bassline riffs and liks were developed to keep revellers ecstatically energized on the road, not to elicit intellectual appreciation. for example, see (rising stars, virgin islands, playing toco band) and the bassline riff that enters at about 4:56 and the little break-away at about 6:36. or see (all stars, woman on de bass) which is to my mind the best example of a panorama tune played in the street art tradition... music to take the reveller for miles under a blazing hot sun yet feel no pain. that's the direction the art needs to recycle back to.

    - big sid

  • taking a rest off here, just got through American Idol, the all stars equivalent got the nod, into the top twenty, this girl dropped her drum sticks, was off key, but very entertaining and confident, that is a very important ingrediant, in any performance, once you on stage you better use it, people are non the wiser even the foremost experts, I know sometimes on my horrible performances people shock me and thought I was good, last story for now, I once had a bad day my voice was off had a bad time controlling my pitches and my voice a lil bit off, but after a standing ovation a very good guitarist tolld me that was one of the most incredidible performance he heard and was surprised when I steupsed at him,the phase's confidence, is what beat the field, the bass lik boogsie used is a tried and well beaten signature of desperadoes and the roll off at the end of long stacatto phrases, is typical desperadoes flavour, phase, been playing with the hill flavour for years and despers been sofening out on it, they getting back there, am listening to phase right now and as am concentrating on my typing I almost had to check to see if it was phase and despers,that is a hard sell to phase fans but I played a little bit with despers and am a die hard suppourter and in my phase II years we did not play them lik,

  • you did not have to disqualify "the last word" birdsong said their last words with their presentation, serving breakfast at the dinner table, will not be eaten, especially if its continential, with a fuul breakfast with steak and eggs country fried chicken, some people mighta put aside the eggs bacon and  pancakes, and eaten the steak and chicken as a dinner,by the way year before last one of the radio stations recorded just the engine rooms of some of the bands I wonder if they did so this year I would like to hear it

  • sweet eustace,

    i'm not going to hate you re skiffle, just disagree...  to be clear, i would have disqualified skiffle's sapna, just as i would have disqualified birdsong's the last word ... on a genre violation. i know there is political pressure, multiplied by monetary inducements, to shift the boundaries. my call is to resist it. nuff said on dat.

    i thought more or less the same as you about the percussionists. they can make or break a whole performance when they do their solo bits. not a job for a choke artist. the tiniest hesitation will throw things off. all these guys came through with flying colors...

    as to the rest... useful insights and comments, keep them coming...

    - big sid

  • Am getting spontaneous now , All Stars ah beg parden, I gould relate to the melody a lil more after the sixth time, but am not canceling the repo man, allyuh loss mih when the jam line started right after the chorus down to the refrain and counter melodytoo many fanfares, though nice distanced for too long from the heme which was not as clearly stated as at the top, so don't spend the money,Sid you are going to hate mih but am moving up Skiffle right behind Despers, and in the mean time the stars will have to face up with renegades for the next spot, Silver stars ah know that big drum thing getting popular, that is a show by itself, but am having a hard time hearing the bases, it is making more accents than the bass, so Edwin your bass is being upstaged by the big drum, that puts you where you are and everybody nice, hats off to all engine room posse, every body gets a throphy, I am recomending a pay raise for all percussionist in panorama "leon Foster I know you will like this one, silver stars big drum man you to but you on probation and will have to do an exam for your raise, am into critical listening now, am going to sift through last year panorama now

  • i forgot one thing , I might either be goinng to the phase with a saw to cut off despers half, or a bag to take it away , if i keep on listenig, all stars the repo man is coming for the second prize so don't spend the money yet, before any body kill mih listen at least three times to the bands,with an honest ear forget who you listening to and digest it pound for pound

This reply was deleted.