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Is there such a thing as an OVER-ARRANGED panorama arrangement? Is there a point when the music stops being sweet? How would an arranger know he crossed that point? How does the listener know that threshold has been crossed?

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Very subjective idea. If the arranger is intelligent, they will listen to their supporters and critics and use their voices along with their own self criticism to do this. The best arrangers usually do this quite well.
I agree BUT supporters and critics need to under stand where the arranger is comin from. For instance Judges say things like "more harmony needed here" but if the arranger wanted it so.
This can happen to an inexperience arranger who ran out of ideas and just decide to to add struff to make up the allotted time, experence arrangers work-out their music in such a way that the listener would not get board or loose interest but be excited wanting to hear what is going to happen next. If an arranger has a shi--y arrangement the players would play it well, it's just that they learnt ah shi--y arrangement. Arrangers have the task of trying to minipulate the judges and audience, Panorama is  about the best arrangement, but who ever is able to minipulate the judges and audience best wins.   
all  arrangers try to work-out their music in such a way that the listener would not get bored but not all are successful.

This is a vary good question, and I'm sure any great arranger could answer it.

I'm no music expert or arranger, but I'll give it a try.

A tune is over arranged if the arrangement exceeds the skills of the players.

For example I'm sure Jit, Bradley or Boogsie won't give your local hometown steelband the same arrangenment that they'd give to their own signature, veteran bands.


A tune is over arranged if the arranger deviates from the tune such that the listener loses the feel and flavor original tune, and almost forgets the source melody.


Other than that I think the arranger goes where his instincts, his heart and his head takes him.

"A tune is over arranged if the arrangement exceeds the skills of the players." nah man never


Chris, I am in your corner on this one.  For panorama, an arranger is working within the confines of a set time-frame.  It is incumbent upon that arranger to fit as much music as possible into the time the criteria provides.  Skill level of players should not come into the equasion.  The players have a duty and responsibility to put in the time in the Panyard as required for them conquer that tune.  The arranger has a vision of what this tune can be.  It is the band's job to bring this vision to reality.  When players approach panorama with this mind-set, the band's overall skill level improves rapidly.

Thank you very much. Now there are cases where the music in to hard for players such as to many "green players". Is Silver Stars panorama music would be difficult for a "green player" but that would not call or considered as "Over arranging".
I agree with you on your first point surely an arranger will arrange to bring out the best abilities in the band and not expose the weaknesses.
I think there is such a fine line between a brilliant arrangement and one that's a little over done. I sometimes wonder if it easier for a virgin pan listener to detect when that threshold has been crossed verses a seasoned listener.When listening to an original arrangement the listener hangs on every note and with anticipation of the next.It is my opinion when the music does not command ones' attention and you cannot wait for music to end is a sign the arranger has crossed the line......or am I off base in my deduction on this topic.

In my opinion I would say u are wrong and right. because many arrangers stray badly from the theme but still  keep my interest in terms of creating their own . That is where the term "through composed" comes in to play.But  but pan competitions or competitions on the hole deal "theme and variation"



Interesting view points guys. There are several arrangements I listened to recently and always felt like the "musicalness" was "too much." I know this would be a sticking point for many, because persons can easily conclude that I am simple minded, or non-musical, or do not know how to listen to blah, blah blah...


But honestly, there are certain elements in arrangements that always will make a listener go "oh yes" or "dat nice" or "ya hear dat" etc. etc. etc. Most of the time when those comments are made, the music at that point is always VERY SIMPLE. Crowds love SIMPLE and SWEET...scholars understand complicated...also, simple + sweet  does not mean mediocre. Look out for arrangements that achieve simple and sweet without being mediocre...


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