A lot of things were promised in the Alliance meeting, but remember they were promised by the same person who sat as the head of USSA for six years what did he do, kept his members in the dark, spent money without their knowledge, didn't give finical reports, ignore his member bands wishes and tried a hostile take over of J'Ouvert City and although there was a vote of no confidence on him as a President, the members wanted him to be part of the new Directors, what did he do.... form another steelband organization to rival USSA and cause a split of the bands in New York, the politicians may very well say no body gets any help, not USSA or NAS, so all steelbands will be out in the cold. THANKS IKE AND TOM!
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Gospelpan, you're accusing me of pointing fingers and talking negative but when this vote of no confidence was first posted momo was calling people crooks and alot of negative things were said. I looked at all of these things and wondered what the hell was going on. I play pan and I have friends in all of these steelbands so I started asking questions, investigating all that I saw posted about USSA and the so called "coup" and I was told a different story. Not only was I told things but I was shown things to support wat i said for example the vote of no confidence was 7-5 in favor and 1 abstain. Now, I think the members of USSA were slow in putting their foot down to put a stop to things that were taking place and I think they deserve blame for allowing this to take place for so long but finally it looks like they have had enough and did put a stop to it.
Now look carefully at what Dika posted because I looked at it and I asked myself a question "If the members of USSA wanted Ike to be part of the new board of directors, why would he just turn his back and form a new organization?" It make sense because what I learnt also is that he listens to everything Tom says and always follows his direction so this big plan with The Brooklyn Cultural Board and the arena downtown is what they wanted because they couldn't be in control of USSA and still have control in what goes on with that arena,they had to be in charge of the steelband association. So the next best thing was to form another steelband association. They say that they resign from USSA and they are still holding on to the bank account information along with other information belonging to USSA. Could it be because USSA is expected to recieve a large amount of money from the city council? Again remember what Dika said Look out for the orange jumpsuits.
Again Gospel do like me look at things from a neutral perspective and ask questions I am sure you know people because you said you were thinking about runiing for president so i am sure you can speak to people to view the same paperwork I saw to prove everyhing I said was true.
also and after resigning his membership in USSA, he still refuses to hand over on to the bank account information and other stuff belonging to USSA?"
GospelPan > SANDRA BROWNJanuary 13, 2010 at 3:57pm
Sandra,
I am not accusing you of anything, what I am telling you is that you made a lot of accusations in your first post that you cannot prove and you still have not provided any evidence to support your claims.
Most of us here play pan and have friends on both sides of the fence, which is why I hope this situation is settled smoothly instead of us going back and forth on this message board. The USSA and NAS need to resolve this situation behind close doors and not on a message board like this.
I am fully aware of the vote of 7-5 in favor and 1 abstain and I agree with those numbers, but what you didn't mention is that two of those votes in favor were not authorized to vote and this is something that I ask you to look into, in regards to the bi-laws. This is where the problem is and this is why a lot of what you said in regards to this is null and void.
There is much more I can say about this Sandra, but this should be between the two groups to discuss...from a legal point as far as I am concerned Ike is still the president of the USSA until things are done in the proper way according to the bi-laws.
Let me ask a question, if someone illegally ousted you from your house, took up residency and then said, "I will let you live in the bathroom", would you accept that?
We also need to look beyond childish statements like "he wants to have control of this and he wants to have control of that...", you have an organization with a board of directors and members who can cast votes on decisions...when are we going to realize that? No one man can take control of an organization like that whether it be the USSA or the NAS...I personally give pan folks in those meetings more credit than that.
Finally, why do you refer to this as a "so called coup" when it was stated at the same USSA meeting on December 30, 2009 and I quote that this "coup was done democratically"?
What I say is let the organizations sort out their differences and let the people decide who they will align themselves with...
Dika \Sandra this thing is not about what they did but how they did it and untill you all understand that you will be alright one other thing idont make accusation unless i have proof
I am getting too old to sit here and spend twenty minutes with my dusty foot self, to respond fully to this; but what you wrote is too unbelievable for a sensible person to accept.
Remember the USSA is an association with bi-laws, rules that govern how it operates, which makes it impossible for Ike to become another Sadaam.
1. Kept his members in the dark -- The USSA had meetings, people asked questions...how was this possible? 2. Spent Money without knowledge -- You mean one person can withdraw money from the bank and what money? 3. No Financial Reports -- And no one questioned this? This is hard to believe...i have a USSA financial report at home. 4. Ignored Member Bands Wishes -- The USSA is not a dictatorship there is a process with votes being cast, etc. 5. The Vote of No Confidence was not valid and it was not legal.
Finally, everyone within the USSA knows that there was a plan to dissolve the organization for several reasons...one being the previous administration never turned in items such as the seal, etc. also the USSA owes money to a company out there, dating back to 2000/2001 so if they ever come into money and that company hears of it, they may sue.
The picture that you are trying to paint is false and common sense confirms this...
We must not turn this into a USSA vs NAS situation because NOBODY wants that...trust me.
As momo pointed out, this is a new beginning....
Let's forget about pointing fingers and let's move forward, pan jumbies and steel bands will decide who they want to align themselves with and I suspect results have a lot to do with it...sometimes competition is a good thing because it keeps everyone on their toes.
I find Momo and Gospel positions curious. However, time will tell. Are there no fresh young faces, with fresh ideas and no baggage? And for for the sake history - The USA was started from a coup. And so was England and France. And let's not forget that Jeus was one of the biggest coup leaders of all time.
This seems to me to be more of the same - unsuspecting panmen being led to the slaughter house. The unsuccessful attempt at taking over New York jouvert was a Tom and Ike move. This is is a similar move. They will never retire or step back. They have already sold-out the steelbands to the developers of the new stadium in Brooklyn. Just like WIADCA has sold out the mas people. They must have something to deliver. Tom must get his hand on a band.
Gospel you are a little naive. Beware of orange jumper suits.
I have a problem with your statement, "And let's not forget that Jesus was one of the biggest coup leaders of all time." and I disagree with it. It sounds nice and it tickles the ears, but it is in fact incorrect. Most people reading it might agree with you because it sounds right, but it is incorrect.
If I don't respond to your analogy folks will think of the Lord Jesus Christ as some kind of rebel, which is not the case...so now I have to explain what is true from what is false.
Since the beginning God gave man one rule to follow, not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam and Eve broke that rule; if it wasn't for that Christ Jesus would not have come because there would be no need.
Since we are now inclined to do wrong, God gave man additional rules in the form of the Bible. Think of the Bible as a form of "Spiritual Bi-Laws"...the leaders at the time of Jesus ministry were not following those laws that God established for our success.
So it is the leaders during Jesus ministry who were the "rebels" who formed a COUP against the word/rules of God....not Jesus. When Jesus came his emphasis was on the "rules", the word of God, which we should follow in order to have success in this life and in the next.
So it was the leaders at that time who formed a COUP, not Jesus...that is very important to understand.
Now, back to the post...my position if you do things in the right way, you will have my support...you will not get my support if you do things the wrong way.
Dika, you said, "They have already sold-out the steelbands to the developers of the new stadium in Brooklyn", what proof do you have of that? I know Marty Moskowitz has a dream regarding a new stadium, which he's had for years but what proof do you have that the USSA has sold-out the steelbands in regards to this?
So far, I have seen a lot of accusations, but no proof..
Gospel, not only was Jesus a rebel, he was troublemaker for the cause of good, He was not a coward and hiding behind technicalities.
Gospel you seem like an intelligent person. If you become a mouth piece for the likes of Ike and Tom you too will fitted in an orange jump suit. Are you sure you want to be defending these guys? Obviously, you either know or don't what is going on. Either way that is very bad news.
Marty Moskowitz is not dreaming he was given directives as part of his future job at the new arena. Ask him what his new job was going to be if had to give up his seat. And by the way that is not a dream for the community. It is a nightmare.
Dika yes i 2 would like to see new faces but we have to work with what we have untill that time comes so why not clean up the mess that be . the people who are taking over USSA also have baggage but i dont mind working working with them if they are going to do things the right way . this is not about what they did but how they did it.. you said jesus was one of the biggest coup Leader of all time TRUE. but look at what he stand for
so you can make statement but i only hope you can prove any thing you say and bye the way i will leave you with a question andyou can ask the steelband other than the two jouvert that tom and ike was a part of did any of the bands ever get cash money for winning other than the two from which tom and ike was a part off and who paid the insurance for all the band for hose two jouvert ike and tom
Momo you are a good man. You and pan deserve better than Ike and Tom. They are using you. This is about money. Big money. Check in to the new arena. Check into who has already been given the job of entertainment director. Check into who has been promised a position on the Brooklyn cultural board. You've already been sold-out and you don't know it.
Ike and Tom couldn't care less about the goal you guys discussed at your meeting. This is about big money. This about moving the panorama and carnival to the arena and who will be in control. It will not be you Momo if you don't wake up. Ike is like Judas and Tom is straight up the devil. Start asking questions and watch them sweat. They can't leave. Momo watch Tom and watch Ike. You never had a chance. They sold you out a long time ago. Ike sold you and pan out to WIADCA a long time ago. Check into it.
Replies
Gospelpan, you're accusing me of pointing fingers and talking negative but when this vote of no confidence was first posted momo was calling people crooks and alot of negative things were said. I looked at all of these things and wondered what the hell was going on. I play pan and I have friends in all of these steelbands so I started asking questions, investigating all that I saw posted about USSA and the so called "coup" and I was told a different story. Not only was I told things but I was shown things to support wat i said for example the vote of no confidence was 7-5 in favor and 1 abstain. Now, I think the members of USSA were slow in putting their foot down to put a stop to things that were taking place and I think they deserve blame for allowing this to take place for so long but finally it looks like they have had enough and did put a stop to it.
Now look carefully at what Dika posted because I looked at it and I asked myself a question "If the members of USSA wanted Ike to be part of the new board of directors, why would he just turn his back and form a new organization?" It make sense because what I learnt also is that he listens to everything Tom says and always follows his direction so this big plan with The Brooklyn Cultural Board and the arena downtown is what they wanted because they couldn't be in control of USSA and still have control in what goes on with that arena,they had to be in charge of the steelband association. So the next best thing was to form another steelband association. They say that they resign from USSA and they are still holding on to the bank account information along with other information belonging to USSA. Could it be because USSA is expected to recieve a large amount of money from the city council? Again remember what Dika said Look out for the orange jumpsuits.
Again Gospel do like me look at things from a neutral perspective and ask questions I am sure you know people because you said you were thinking about runiing for president so i am sure you can speak to people to view the same paperwork I saw to prove everyhing I said was true.
also and after resigning his membership in USSA, he still refuses to hand over on to the bank account information and other stuff belonging to USSA?"
I am not accusing you of anything, what I am telling you is that you made a lot of accusations in your first post that you cannot prove and you still have not provided any evidence to support your claims.
Most of us here play pan and have friends on both sides of the fence, which is why I hope this situation is settled smoothly instead of us going back and forth on this message board. The USSA and NAS need to resolve this situation behind close doors and not on a message board like this.
I am fully aware of the vote of 7-5 in favor and 1 abstain and I agree with those numbers, but what you didn't mention is that two of those votes in favor were not authorized to vote and this is something that I ask you to look into, in regards to the bi-laws. This is where the problem is and this is why a lot of what you said in regards to this is null and void.
There is much more I can say about this Sandra, but this should be between the two groups to discuss...from a legal point as far as I am concerned Ike is still the president of the USSA until things are done in the proper way according to the bi-laws.
Let me ask a question, if someone illegally ousted you from your house, took up residency and then said, "I will let you live in the bathroom", would you accept that?
We also need to look beyond childish statements like "he wants to have control of this and he wants to have control of that...", you have an organization with a board of directors and members who can cast votes on decisions...when are we going to realize that? No one man can take control of an organization like that whether it be the USSA or the NAS...I personally give pan folks in those meetings more credit than that.
Finally, why do you refer to this as a "so called coup" when it was stated at the same USSA meeting on December 30, 2009 and I quote that this "coup was done democratically"?
What I say is let the organizations sort out their differences and let the people decide who they will align themselves with...
I am getting too old to sit here and spend twenty minutes with my dusty foot self, to respond fully to this; but what you wrote is too unbelievable for a sensible person to accept.
Remember the USSA is an association with bi-laws, rules that govern how it operates, which makes it impossible for Ike to become another Sadaam.
1. Kept his members in the dark -- The USSA had meetings, people asked questions...how was this possible?
2. Spent Money without knowledge -- You mean one person can withdraw money from the bank and what money?
3. No Financial Reports -- And no one questioned this? This is hard to believe...i have a USSA financial report at home.
4. Ignored Member Bands Wishes -- The USSA is not a dictatorship there is a process with votes being cast, etc.
5. The Vote of No Confidence was not valid and it was not legal.
Finally, everyone within the USSA knows that there was a plan to dissolve the organization for several reasons...one being the previous administration never turned in items such as the seal, etc. also the USSA owes money to a company out there, dating back to 2000/2001 so if they ever come into money and that company hears of it, they may sue.
The picture that you are trying to paint is false and common sense confirms this...
We must not turn this into a USSA vs NAS situation because NOBODY wants that...trust me.
As momo pointed out, this is a new beginning....
Let's forget about pointing fingers and let's move forward, pan jumbies and steel bands will decide who they want to align themselves with and I suspect results have a lot to do with it...sometimes competition is a good thing because it keeps everyone on their toes.
This seems to me to be more of the same - unsuspecting panmen being led to the slaughter house. The unsuccessful attempt at taking over New York jouvert was a Tom and Ike move. This is is a similar move. They will never retire or step back. They have already sold-out the steelbands to the developers of the new stadium in Brooklyn. Just like WIADCA has sold out the mas people. They must have something to deliver. Tom must get his hand on a band.
Gospel you are a little naive. Beware of orange jumper suits.
I have a problem with your statement, "And let's not forget that Jesus was one of the biggest coup leaders of all time." and I disagree with it. It sounds nice and it tickles the ears, but it is in fact incorrect. Most people reading it might agree with you because it sounds right, but it is incorrect.
If I don't respond to your analogy folks will think of the Lord Jesus Christ as some kind of rebel, which is not the case...so now I have to explain what is true from what is false.
Since the beginning God gave man one rule to follow, not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam and Eve broke that rule; if it wasn't for that Christ Jesus would not have come because there would be no need.
Since we are now inclined to do wrong, God gave man additional rules in the form of the Bible. Think of the Bible as a form of "Spiritual Bi-Laws"...the leaders at the time of Jesus ministry were not following those laws that God established for our success.
So it is the leaders during Jesus ministry who were the "rebels" who formed a COUP against the word/rules of God....not Jesus. When Jesus came his emphasis was on the "rules", the word of God, which we should follow in order to have success in this life and in the next.
So it was the leaders at that time who formed a COUP, not Jesus...that is very important to understand.
Now, back to the post...my position if you do things in the right way, you will have my support...you will not get my support if you do things the wrong way.
Dika, you said, "They have already sold-out the steelbands to the developers of the new stadium in Brooklyn", what proof do you have of that? I know Marty Moskowitz has a dream regarding a new stadium, which he's had for years but what proof do you have that the USSA has sold-out the steelbands in regards to this?
So far, I have seen a lot of accusations, but no proof..
Gospel you seem like an intelligent person. If you become a mouth piece for the likes of Ike and Tom you too will fitted in an orange jump suit. Are you sure you want to be defending these guys? Obviously, you either know or don't what is going on. Either way that is very bad news.
Marty Moskowitz is not dreaming he was given directives as part of his future job at the new arena. Ask him what his new job was going to be if had to give up his seat. And by the way that is not a dream for the community. It is a nightmare.
so you can make statement but i only hope you can prove any thing you say and bye the way i will leave you with a question andyou can ask the steelband other than the two jouvert that tom and ike was a part of did any of the bands ever get cash money for winning other than the two from which tom and ike was a part off and who paid the insurance for all the band for hose two jouvert ike and tom
Ike and Tom couldn't care less about the goal you guys discussed at your meeting. This is about big money. This about moving the panorama and carnival to the arena and who will be in control. It will not be you Momo if you don't wake up. Ike is like Judas and Tom is straight up the devil. Start asking questions and watch them sweat. They can't leave. Momo watch Tom and watch Ike. You never had a chance. They sold you out a long time ago. Ike sold you and pan out to WIADCA a long time ago. Check into it.
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