From WITCO Desperadoes.
WITCO Desperadoes wishes to categorically disassociate itself from reports in the media referring to statements alleged to have been made by our arranger Robert Greenidge with regard to a call for foreign Panorama judges. We wish to emphatically state that no such statements were made by Robert Greenidge, nor did any such emanate from any other member of the band. We recognize the extreme difficulties of judging a Panorama competition and have always accepted the fact that ‘the decisions of the judges are final’.
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WELL SIDD I AGREE WITH SOME OF THE THINGS YOU SAY, BUT IF THE STATEMENT WAS NOT MADE BY ROBERT GRENIDGE ABOUT A CALL FOR INTERNATIONAL JUDGES THEN IT SHOULD BE MADE KNOWN THAT THIS WAS NOT TRUE. I AGREE WITH THE OTHER THINGS YOU SAY ESPECIALLY ALONG THE LINES THAT IT'S HIGH TIME THAT PAN TRINBAGO WEAN ITSELF OFF THE GOV'T TITTIES AND RAISE FUNDS ON THEIR OWN, SIMILAR SENTIMENTS I HAVE EXPRESSED TO PATRICK ARNOLD DIRECTLY. ESPECIALLY WHEN WE LOOK AT HOW SUCCESSFUL OBAMA WAS AT USING THE INTERNET TO RAISE FUNDS, THIS IS AN IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME FOR PAN TRINBAGO., I TOLD PATRICK ARNOLD THAT IT WAS A BIG DISRESPECT FOR THE GOV'T TO DEVELOP AND LAUNCH THE "G PAN" WITH NO INVOLVEMENT OR INVITATION FOR PAN TRINBAGO. IT BEGS THE QUESTION: SO WHAT IS PAN TRINBAGO? CHOPPED LIVER? PAN TRINBAGO HAS TO DEMAND AND EARN THE RESPECT OF THE GOV'T. I WISH PAN TRINBAGO, PAN LOVERS WORLDWIDE AND ALL A SUCCESSFUL PANORAMA AND CARNIVAL IN T&T. WITH REGARDS, FRANK HISLOP
It should be noted that Mr. Greenidge did not make that statement this year, but he was apparently quoted saying it last year...and for me that's good enough because he spoke from his heart. Those words may have cost them last year, so I'm not surprised to see him distance himself from those statements this year, it could be a case of learning from your past mistakes.
I have been playin with desperadoes for a good amount of years, and knowing the people in the band and robbie, yes we do talk about the judges but which band dont. Its all about takin the judges comments and workin on perfectin your weakness.It is too late to talk about the judges, what about Patrick Arnold, he has experimented too much on the panorama. Why we wasnt havin these problems with the president of pantrinbago before him.We must look at the top first, the president of pantrinbago caused all of this, the competition is more a show than a panman war. All the bands feel like they have to suck up to pantrinbago or else they will not make the big stage.Right now bands who are in the finals is relaxin cause the space is too long, the panmen is idle, all of these things cause a prblem in the system. Like i said we wasnt havin these prblems in the 80s and 90s so pantrinbago need to check theyself then we could move on from there. Big ups to Desperadoes and we dont make excuses, the music speaks for itself.
Marcus Ash > panta desperadoes finestFebruary 15, 2009 at 12:54pm
I personally don't think that bringing in foreign judges will solve the problem of folks being dissatisfied with the results, but I do believe change is needed. I think it's time to move forward and bring in no more than two foreign judges...but why on earth would I do that?
Well, first because some of Trinidad's most recognized arrangers (Boogsie, Ray, etc.) have gone on record to say some of the judges, lack the knowledge to judge their works fairly. Their statements are strengthened by the fact that Mr. Victor Prescod has voiced a need for training for the judges of Panorama and you don't ask for training unless something is lacking somewhere.
Second, we all know that there are some bands that will make the finals regardless of how poorly they perform in the semis, a couple of years ago I don't think Exodus should of made it and this year, I question whether All Stars should have made it...I am at a loss as to how they placed above Renegades. So in my humble opinion there is bias present amongst some judges, maybe because of sponsorship deals, maybe because they want their favorite bands to do well...I don't know. But I can't blame it on incompetence, the judges are experienced, intelligent individuals...but something is very wrong somewhere.
I think we should stop saying that foreign judges can't judge a Panorama and we should stop assuming that they don't know anything about Pan, Trinidad or the history of Panorama because it's not necessarily true. I know of several foreigners who are more than qualified to be a Panorama judge, who have their own pans, who have arranged, who have a masters degree in music, who have their own jazz bands, etc., etc., etc.
As I said before, it may not solve the problem because folks will always complain...people have their own opinions, but they are not musicians so what sounds good and exciting to a pan jumbie, can be complete and utter foolishness to an experienced musician...we need to remember that. However, there have been some results that are so off-target that both pan-jumbies and arrangers alike are in full agreement that something is wrong...the arranger of Pamberi complaining about tying with Starlift is a prime example.
It's time for a change, which could also bring with it, more exposure for the Pan, Steel Bands and Panorama.
Layne Clarke > GospelPanFebruary 16, 2009 at 11:46pm
I hear your advocacy for change. I believe that this is something that officials must pay attention to. Quite often when things become too predictable then there must be effort put forth to change the dynamics. Fresh minds could promote collaboration and learning on both side of the coin, which could expand on international involvement, exposure for the artform and real legitmacy for the event/culture.We need a comprehensive framework for change that would take into consideration all the components of the event- to create opportunity for younger players, arrangers, tuners and organisers, stickmakers,teachers and adjudicators within and outside of T'NTetc. etc.
Randi Curvan > GospelPanFebruary 14, 2009 at 7:06pm
Yes GP,
The call for foreign judges at Panorama is nothing new. At least for the past 4 years various people have expressed this wish when recognition for their masterpiece was not forthcoming in a way that brought them success. But far more important than this, is the very close resemblance to times in history when the original governing body refused to heed the rumblings of discontent and before they knew it a knew governing body was formed by the disgruntled with much more financial backing, a greater sense of fairness and universally upheld ideals that brought all those looking in from the outside and created a level playing field.
I give you FIFA, FIA in Formula 1 Racing, World Tennis Assosiation and the International Cricket Council.
The close resemblance to those organisations above is that they were all at one time ruled by the British. Trinidad and Tobago has tried very hard to divest itself of its colonial past with some success. However embedded deep deep within its infrastructure is the one foible that it cannot change.
Bureaucracy. Bureaucrats have infected Trinidad and Tobago's every cell, muscle and sinue. They, who are without talent, brain, common sense and the will to progress have become our bureaucrats. Run our Organisations and generally put obstacles in our way.
They will be the downfall of the Trinidad & Tobago Panorama. They have already failed to protect our music industry. I don't like reminiscing at a time like this but in a few days the bands will be strutting their stuff on the streets of T & T and not one trumpeter or saxophonist would be seen.
So PanTrinbago take heed. You did not invent music. Music has been played the world over on any instrument you care to mention. A Judge from Switzerland, Austria, Japan Germany or Canada would be a welcome change. Trust me, Steelband Music is big enough to live with it.
Layne Clarke > Randi CurvanFebruary 16, 2009 at 11:25pm
Thanks brother, I think we might be on the same wave lenght. I hear yuh!
Layne
Replies
It should be noted that Mr. Greenidge did not make that statement this year, but he was apparently quoted saying it last year...and for me that's good enough because he spoke from his heart. Those words may have cost them last year, so I'm not surprised to see him distance himself from those statements this year, it could be a case of learning from your past mistakes.
Well, first because some of Trinidad's most recognized arrangers (Boogsie, Ray, etc.) have gone on record to say some of the judges, lack the knowledge to judge their works fairly. Their statements are strengthened by the fact that Mr. Victor Prescod has voiced a need for training for the judges of Panorama and you don't ask for training unless something is lacking somewhere.
Second, we all know that there are some bands that will make the finals regardless of how poorly they perform in the semis, a couple of years ago I don't think Exodus should of made it and this year, I question whether All Stars should have made it...I am at a loss as to how they placed above Renegades. So in my humble opinion there is bias present amongst some judges, maybe because of sponsorship deals, maybe because they want their favorite bands to do well...I don't know. But I can't blame it on incompetence, the judges are experienced, intelligent individuals...but something is very wrong somewhere.
I think we should stop saying that foreign judges can't judge a Panorama and we should stop assuming that they don't know anything about Pan, Trinidad or the history of Panorama because it's not necessarily true. I know of several foreigners who are more than qualified to be a Panorama judge, who have their own pans, who have arranged, who have a masters degree in music, who have their own jazz bands, etc., etc., etc.
As I said before, it may not solve the problem because folks will always complain...people have their own opinions, but they are not musicians so what sounds good and exciting to a pan jumbie, can be complete and utter foolishness to an experienced musician...we need to remember that. However, there have been some results that are so off-target that both pan-jumbies and arrangers alike are in full agreement that something is wrong...the arranger of Pamberi complaining about tying with Starlift is a prime example.
It's time for a change, which could also bring with it, more exposure for the Pan, Steel Bands and Panorama.
The call for foreign judges at Panorama is nothing new. At least for the past 4 years various people have expressed this wish when recognition for their masterpiece was not forthcoming in a way that brought them success. But far more important than this, is the very close resemblance to times in history when the original governing body refused to heed the rumblings of discontent and before they knew it a knew governing body was formed by the disgruntled with much more financial backing, a greater sense of fairness and universally upheld ideals that brought all those looking in from the outside and created a level playing field.
I give you FIFA, FIA in Formula 1 Racing, World Tennis Assosiation and the International Cricket Council.
The close resemblance to those organisations above is that they were all at one time ruled by the British. Trinidad and Tobago has tried very hard to divest itself of its colonial past with some success. However embedded deep deep within its infrastructure is the one foible that it cannot change.
Bureaucracy. Bureaucrats have infected Trinidad and Tobago's every cell, muscle and sinue. They, who are without talent, brain, common sense and the will to progress have become our bureaucrats. Run our Organisations and generally put obstacles in our way.
They will be the downfall of the Trinidad & Tobago Panorama. They have already failed to protect our music industry. I don't like reminiscing at a time like this but in a few days the bands will be strutting their stuff on the streets of T & T and not one trumpeter or saxophonist would be seen.
So PanTrinbago take heed. You did not invent music. Music has been played the world over on any instrument you care to mention. A Judge from Switzerland, Austria, Japan Germany or Canada would be a welcome change. Trust me, Steelband Music is big enough to live with it.
Layne
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